Hey. I'm Mitchell Davis, a Laravel developer.
Gavin Tye:You're more than that, mate. I'm Gavin Tyre, cofounder of Six Sides.
Mitchell Davis:And you do sales and sometimes marketing. Yep. Kinda
Gavin Tye:kinda bit of here and there. Yep.
Mitchell Davis:And we're building 6Sides.co. It's an events platform that helps you build a stronger community through events, and this is our b to b SaaS journey. How are going, mate?
Gavin Tye:Good, mate. Episode nine. So that's nine weeks. We've been decided to document the journey, and it's been really interesting to go back and listen to some of these episodes. I listened to episode two, I think, the other day again, and where although this is a side not a side hustle, but we have our main businesses to focus on, we are we are moving along.
Gavin Tye:There's a lot of stuff happening week to week base on on a week to week basis. It's and especially since we're not doing this full time. Right? So it's been quite, quite interesting. And, look, to get the, to bring it straight up and the elephant in the room, for those of you that listening, this isn't a a YouTube live session.
Gavin Tye:I bit off more than I could chew. In our last episode, I recommended I suggested we do a YouTube live session as the next episode. Turns out our Riverside account is, not set up for that, and we need to do a bit of a workaround to get that happening, which we will. But, yeah, thanks for some of the people who have reached out and said, hey. When's that live session?
Gavin Tye:And, yeah, we it's a work in progress.
Mitchell Davis:So It's on the back burner for now. Yeah. It was a little too too difficult, and and we had some scheduling changes as well that happened. We were meant to record on Thursday. This episode's actually late.
Mitchell Davis:So, normally, it would have been released two hours ago now. So we're we're just really behind the curve this week because we had a public holiday on Friday. I couldn't record on Thursday, and just there's a lot going on. So, anyway, we're here. We'll get this episode out, and we'll revisit the livestream at some point in the future, but don't hold us to it.
Mitchell Davis:And Gavin's gotta stop making stuff up right at the end of the episode and committing us to things.
Gavin Tye:I'll never stop. I I thought the first time I've got myself into a situation by volunteering than getting myself into something way above my depth. I remember once when I was younger, there was a there was a music band called Sonic Animation if that's a really old band. Right? But I had these two puppets that they used to get on stage.
Gavin Tye:And, I'm I saw them one, Thursday night before Splendor in the Grass, which is a big music festival in Byron Bay. And I I jokingly said to the fan club or the the one of the band members, hey. If you ever need someone to dance at sonic animation in the puppet suit, just let me know. And, I was just I threw it out there. I did not think it was gonna come out.
Gavin Tye:Anyway, lo and behold, on a Saturday morning, they said, hey. Do you wanna do that tomorrow night? And I'm like, yeah. I'll do it. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:Awesome. It was the most painful thing I've ever done in my life. Dancing on the second day of a festival. I was so hot in this machine, like a puppet suit that blew up. It was like a sauna.
Gavin Tye:I almost passed out, and that was Yeah. Unbelievably painful. And then they were like, how was that? And I like, thank god that's over. And I was like, you gotta go back out for a encore.
Gavin Tye:It was horrendous.
Mitchell Davis:So you were dancing the whole time during the whole oh my god. In a
Gavin Tye:puppet suit. Yeah. It was it was terrible. So
Mitchell Davis:Wow.
Gavin Tye:Yep. Side note. This is kinda like that. Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:A little bit like that. Yeah. Well, I did wanna call out early on in the episode because I always leave it way too late. If you are listening and you are enjoying what we're doing, we would love if you would review it, if you would share it, if you'd give it the five stars, get it out to your friends, your network, whatever anyone that you think might be interested in what two Australian founders are doing with a fairly new business and hopefully you're liking what we're doing. So, yeah, that would that would be great.
Mitchell Davis:We would really appreciate that. Yep. Alright.
Gavin Tye:Well Any feedback as well. Like, if you have anything you want us to talk about, maybe you're having some challenges or something around product development, which is what your specialty is, Mitch, or around sales and marketing, happy to, answer those specifically on the call. Although we're new to the startup world, like this particular venture, I've been in b to b startups since 02/2015, and you've been doing your stuff, Mitch, for the last ten
Mitchell Davis:years apart.
Gavin Tye:So we're quite experienced, and we're happy to share and help any way we can if anyone has any questions. So yeah. Yeah. That's
Mitchell Davis:the stand
Gavin Tye:up front. Yep.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. There there'll be, like, contact info in the, show notes. So I wanted to get out in front and give you an update which you haven't heard yet from me Gavin. The dot com. We got an email back from Namecheap on over the weekend saying that they basically had no contact from the current owner.
Mitchell Davis:They never responded and so they decided to refund our money. So it's hippie account. Yeah. So we got out we got our money back but the the conversion rate meant that we lost, like, $200 or something like that. So a bit of an extra stab with the knife there.
Gavin Tye:But That's why you were sad yesterday.
Mitchell Davis:I got on the call crying, but I wouldn't tell you why. No. No. Oh, no. What what I think we should do so we we you can go back and listen to the episode seven, the $5,000 letter, if you wanna kind of hear how this came about.
Mitchell Davis:But what we did was we went with Namecheap because they had it listed at something like $4,800 or something like that. But then on some of the other sites like GoDaddy, they didn't have a price, but they just had it as like you can use our agent that, you know, you hire for a hundred and $50 or something like
Gavin Tye:that
Mitchell Davis:to
Gavin Tye:You didn't wanna spend the money on
Mitchell Davis:I didn't wanna do it. Yeah. It turns out we ended up losing that much in fees anyway. So maybe what we should do is try and go through a a broker, an agent like that.
Gavin Tye:You think? That's what I said in the first instance.
Mitchell Davis:That is what you said. Yeah. But I but look. Anyway The live and love. It is what it is.
Mitchell Davis:That's right. So I think we should try that because I don't wanna give up on this. But I was saying to Nicole when I found out about this, like, the fact that they just didn't respond at all, that's a bad sign. Like, not even saying no. They might be like, they might be dead.
Mitchell Davis:You know? Who knows? Like, we do we don't know. This could be a not solvable problem for a long time.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. I wonder if we could get a cheaper letter. Like, I wonder if we could go .con. That that probably won't have an impact. Right?
Gavin Tye:Dotcog. Yeah. Dotcog.
Mitchell Davis:Good idea. Yeah. Like Yeah. We should we should do that. Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Yeah. We should definitely do that. That's a great idea. I like that.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Yeah. I know.
Mitchell Davis:It's not. Anyway, so it's a bit of an evolving story. A saga. It is a saga, the the.com saga, and hopefully, it has a good resolution, a good ending, but it it is a bit embarrassing kind of having well it's not our fault but we talked about it as though it was going to happen and then it hasn't so it's a bit of a bummer it would have been nice if it was just an instant like yep okay you buy it and it's yours the next day and great but this is real life. You know?
Mitchell Davis:It's not always like that.
Gavin Tye:Drama. It's suspense. It's it's sadness. It's anticipation. It's everything is.
Gavin Tye:Could be. Like, we it's really
Mitchell Davis:It's a story, but I would rather have the domain than have the story for the podcast.
Gavin Tye:Most people do, like, murder mysteries, spy dramas on podcasts. This is about getting the letter m.
Mitchell Davis:Like The letter m. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:I think our numbers are gonna go up.
Mitchell Davis:I'll be
Gavin Tye:alright with
Mitchell Davis:you. Yep. I think so. Yeah. You might be right.
Mitchell Davis:This is worth it. Worth all the pain. Anyway, so that's where the the.com is at. So for now, it's .co. We'll we'll keep you posted as as things keep moving.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Alright. Well, on that sad note, let's move on to something more happy. Mate, you've been since we spoke about, like, last it's been almost a couple of weeks. We've had the Easter break.
Gavin Tye:You've done some amazing work with the app. Like, we you've you've embraced cursor and you've taken the the next iteration, the visual, the UI and UX and the functionality of, of six sides and what it looks like completely from MVP. It's a really interesting it looks great. Tell us about that.
Mitchell Davis:Thank you. Yeah. Well, so at last episode, I had just installed Cursor maybe an hour or two before we recorded and I was using it to just put together some like really basic screens of a mobile app like okay hey build me a home screen, it's got a button that says get started on it etc, here's a logo. Well after that I then spent because that was one of these long weekends that we have in April, I think that was the Easter one. I then spent most of Saturday after we recorded going through and kind of bringing across some of the functionality from the existing Laricon Australia app and I got it to a point where we had you could log in with a ticket code and I really wanted to start proving out the theming this ability for events to apply their own branding into the app and have then all of the screens take on their colors and eventually maybe we'll get to things like fonts and stuff like that but trying to make the app feel bespoke once you get past the enter a ticket code area.
Mitchell Davis:So yeah I spent a bunch of time with Cursor basically going like 'hey here's a working screen that I've got in another app, can you pull out all of this and get it to work in this new code base? And it did a pretty good job so I continued to be very impressed with how quickly you can get up and running with something. Let me finish off that story so I kept working away on it, we then had a call with a potential customer on the Monday after that like it was on Easter Monday, we had a call with someone overseas and I was able to show them this work that I'd done like this ability to log in and the branding because they were particularly they were a bit worried about having a six sided a six sided a six sides app versus an app of their own branding on the app store and so I was kind of able to walk them through that and that was really great because it we weren't then just talking in kind of abstracts. Oh, you know, it's gonna be fine. Like, it'll be okay.
Mitchell Davis:We could actually show them. And a lot of those screens came together, yeah, by me just copying over what we had already and then getting cursor, hey. Can you go change this? It should work like that. Maybe use this button from this UI component library that I've started putting together and so that way everything kind of looks uniform inside of the the the app and it went really well.
Mitchell Davis:So yeah so I've been really enjoying that. At that time I was using a bunch of fake data so everything that you saw in the app was basically like hard coded in but since then so now with that we're talking that was a week ago since then I've got it actually hooked up to the real back end for SikSites so it's now able to talk to our back end via API, we can pull in all of the attendees and the list of talks and speakers and so on like we've got a lot of that stuff done so there's still a lot more to do like to get all of the screens copied over basically from the the existing app but we are making really good progress so it's exciting and and Cursor is doing a fair bit of that. I just yesterday I started work on like a messaging and like conversations area that I was showing you and that came together in like twenty minutes and that was all cursor. So basically just having this ability to punch into it, hey, I I wanna build out this new like conversations or messages area. These are some of the things it might have.
Mitchell Davis:We might wanna have like an announcements thread or or channel or whatever you wanna call it. We'll have to centralize on some of the messaging, but where, okay, that's only for the event organizer to put information into and everybody should be a part of that group. Yeah. Things like that. And I just kind of I kinda just like stream of conscious chat with it and then see what it outputs and it did a really good job.
Mitchell Davis:So then with only a few tweaks, I got it to a point where I was happy enough send it to you just to get your thoughts on it and you came back and said it looked pretty good. So yeah, it's all based on fake data at the moment but it's getting there and I expect that probably within the next few weeks. It's not gonna happen, like, in the next few days. It it'll take a little longer. But, yeah, I'll I'll be able to bring over 90% of the functionality that we have, and we can start adding some of the new things that we're we're thinking through.
Gavin Tye:You have you've used it quite a bit now over a longer period of time. So if now and we have done quite a bit with it. So if you weren't using cursor as an example, where how where would you be? Would have you you would it doesn't feel like you'd be at the same spot, but how much harder would it have been to do what you were doing that what you've achieved now?
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. It's totally a fair point a lot further behind. So where it really for me it shines, Cursor specifically shines in two ways. The first is like grunt work. So giving it a task of hey can you take this you know this code or this data or whatever and then make it look like this instead and it'll go through and go and it'll fix it all up.
Mitchell Davis:Does that do that? Yeah. If you've got your sound on, yeah, I think there's a setting. It goes through and it does that. And, again, it's it's probably like 95% right.
Mitchell Davis:For example, I used it to do generate a a fake conversation. So clicking into one of those threads, I was like, okay. Great. Now can you add some actual messages here of a real conversation that might go back and forth? And it did it, you know and it's really good at that sort of stuff that like grunt work type of stuff.
Mitchell Davis:The other thing that I've found it really useful for is to give me inspiration of what a screen might look like that that I don't have already like I haven't gone on dribble and gone how to what should a list of threads look like? You know? I can just give it that prompt and say, hey, make me a screen that looks like messages on you know, Telegram or on the iOS messages app or on Facebook Messenger or whatever, and it can go, yep. Okay. Cool.
Mitchell Davis:And then it it does it, and it gives you something that's really close. Or you can say, okay. This is cool. Now let's try a totally different stop, and it it'll just randomly come up with something that probably looks pretty good. It's good for that sort of, like, inspiration
Gavin Tye:stuff as well. Mate. That's a that's a word for 2025. That's a boom boomer word is inspiration. Just wanna call it out there.
Mitchell Davis:Oh, okay. We need a running tally of when each of us are a boomer.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. I gave you a one word answer in Slack yesterday, and I thought he's gonna think that's a boomer word.
Mitchell Davis:Not at all. No. It was fine. I think you said nice. And I was like, yeah.
Mitchell Davis:That's that's cool. I was already on my way out the door, so I wasn't thinking about it at all. But yeah.
Gavin Tye:Sorry. I've I've interrupted.
Mitchell Davis:At all. Good. That's basically it. That's my experience with cursor so far is that it's, like, very powerful.
Gavin Tye:Where does it fall down? Where does it do you find that your expertise needs to jump in and save it?
Mitchell Davis:It gets stuck with what's the best way to put it? It doesn't it's not always smart enough to know, oh, okay. This is what he meant. You know? This is what you meant when you typed this in.
Mitchell Davis:So it might go and create like I was asking it to okay come up with some designs for widgets to go on the like the home screen and then it just like made all this stuff and made all these changes and all I wanted was just like a few little maybe text changes or change the size of this or whatever, know. So sometimes it goes a bit off the rails and you can just like there's a button to go reject all and it'll just undo it all, you know. So I've had to use that only a handful of times but it's not it's not the tool for every job like I'm finding myself now that I'm getting a bit more into it I'm starting to have my own mental model of like oh okay this is a good task to get Cursor to do like the come up with a fake conversation and give me a rough idea of what a screen might look like but then I am switching back to my other editor which I normally use in this case for the mobile app that's WebStorm, I'm switching back to WebStorm to then go and make like detailed changes when I know exactly what I want to do and I'm not just asking the cursor agent to do everything for me.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Right. Okay. So it's kinda like because you get that in normal GBT where it's kinda like a little like an adolescent anyone that has kids, you go ask a child to do something, and if you don't watch them, come away and come back. They went, I did that, dad, but I've also done x y and zed.
Gavin Tye:I'm like, what are you doing? Like, you've just smashed the window, burnt the house down. Like, yeah. This hasn't happened to you, but you know what I mean? So you just don't
Mitchell Davis:watch it.
Gavin Tye:You just yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And it to its credit, it is good sometimes at, like, okay.
Mitchell Davis:I'm gonna do the minimum. Let me know. And then it'll say, do you want me to go do data? And then you can go, yeah. Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Okay. Yep. Let's do that. Yeah. So that's handy when that happens, but, yeah, there's been a few times where it's just gone off the rails.
Mitchell Davis:I'm like, woah. Hold on, pal. And just turn everything to, like, reject all and then go do the change myself or update the prompt, you know, and that's okay as well. But it is kind of what I have noticed is like it's quite useful at the end of the day when maybe you're a bit tired and a bit like brain's not as you know in tune as it was at the start of the day it's quite handy then to be able to just talk to your coach and say okay I'd like you to do this instead of having to think through oh okay I'm gonna have to do that so it's it's powerful for those times when you can still get stuff done even when you're not functioning, you know, at a %. And with code, I find that like if I have a really bad sleep it's almost not worth going to work at all because you're not gonna be able to get as like the work that I might do on a day when I feel like crap or I'm really tired or whatever, I might spend a whole day, like eight hours on something that I could knock out in like an hour the next day if I had a really good sleep, you know, or something like that.
Mitchell Davis:It's that type of thing like developers, it's really hard to write code when you're not functioning at a pretty high level. So cursor is like, it's always on, you know, and you could just talk to it. So, yeah, that's like that's been something that I've noticed, and that's why, like, yesterday, I was running out the door to go renew my passport. I had to go do the photos and all of that stuff yesterday. And, yeah, with, like, twenty minutes to spare, I was like, I bet I could come up with a Messenger screen and then send it to Gab.
Mitchell Davis:And I was. You know? And there's no way I would have been able to do that just on my own. Yeah. In that time frame at the end of the day.
Mitchell Davis:You know?
Gavin Tye:Yep. And I guess it's gonna get it's just gonna keep getting better and better. Right? Like everything. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:So yeah. Awesome.
Mitchell Davis:Well, it on on that point, there's this new thing which I I don't know too much about. I can't speak about it with any authority at all but it's called MCP, I think it's model context protocol something like that and basically it's a way where you can plug into these AI agents like Cursor or ChatGPT I think they're working on I'm not too sure but it's a way where you can connect systems to talk to each other so you can have it connect to Stripe and say you just type into Cursor 'hey can you go and add a subscription for Gavin for $30 a month for blah blah blah' and it can then do that because Stripe has released some sort of API or SDK for the people that are in the know to know it's a protocol that allows the AI agent to understand, oh, okay. These are these are all the different things I can do on Stripe and how to interpret me saying, hey. Go charge Gavin thirty dollars. It then knows how to connect those dots to go and do that.
Gavin Tye:Right.
Mitchell Davis:Okay. And I was looking at it because it's like, oh, wouldn't that be cool? Only purely for the technology aspect which is why I haven't done it yet because it's gonna be a waste of time but wouldn't it be cool to be able to plug into ChatGPT or something like that and say who's coming to my who's coming to LariCon Australia you know and then it goes oh yeah cool I'll go get that from Six Sites because it knows how to do that right and then oh and what are they interested in and here's my list of interests who might I want to chat to you know at the at the conference at things like that and you can start to do that stuff using this MCP. So yeah I think we're a long way away from that but I over the weekend, I was kinda googling on my phone. I was like, what is this and how does it work?
Mitchell Davis:And then could I do you I wonder if I could start to get something like that happening, and then I had to had to pull the reins in a bit on myself and be like, we are not ready for this at all. This is stupid. What are you doing? But sometimes you just gotta Yeah. Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Yeah. It's exciting to work on new things. You know? Yep.
Gavin Tye:Yep. Awesome. That mate, that sounds really good. It's yeah. Like, and and since then, you've delivered you've given me some screenshots.
Gavin Tye:The last conversation we had, I was hesitant to go do some lead gen because we need some consistent a consistent direction, and I I honestly think we're there. Right? Yeah. I did show someone yesterday, and they were really impressed. And they're a professional event management company.
Gavin Tye:So Awesome. And I and and here, Ali, who we talk about all the time, I showed him yesterday too, thought it was amazing as well. So, yeah, it's probably a good segue from that into now always starting to come up with a lead gen plan for a year. So
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Lay it on us. What do you got planned?
Gavin Tye:Well, lead gen, basically. No. So last I guess last week or the week before, I've been trying to figure out what the actual business process is that we have an impact on and trying to figure that out. So doing all that, which is a specific framework that I follow, I figured out what our ideal customer is and its associations that have a vested interest in building or, making their community stronger and also subsequently building it through events. So, yeah, I'm gonna start reaching out to those and just sharing just sharing what we're doing, just seeing if anyone wants to have an interest.
Gavin Tye:So the people we I met yesterday just sent through a list of four or five people she recommends I reach out to Yeah. For that specific reason. That's what they're trying
Mitchell Davis:is that?
Gavin Tye:Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Like, that's that's that's your one to five that you're talk you know, that you've been talking about for forever. Yeah. If we can have that happen for the actual events themselves, but that would be great. But this is an awesome start. You know, because this is app this has happened a few times where on these calls that we've been having, oh, you should talk with da da da, you know, or or whatever.
Mitchell Davis:So, yeah, this is awesome to to have someone just instantly give us five other people to chat to.
Gavin Tye:That's great. Yeah. Look, I think it's a it's a bit different. There's different types of referrals. So we you could Yep.
Gavin Tye:You could loosely call that a referral. Sure. But it's it's a referral. I think it's a really strong referral if you go, hey. Speak to Mitch.
Gavin Tye:They're Yeah. Looking for something now. They said they've got this problem. They're actively searching. That's a that's a strong referral.
Gavin Tye:It's a, hey. Just speak to Mitch. He's in this industry.
Mitchell Davis:It's pretty
Gavin Tye:much referral, but it's better than nothing. Right?
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. That's a good sign at least.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. That's right. The sign is it's resonating. So, we are still optimizing our LinkedIn to accommodate the six sides, the app in there, which we haven't quite done yet. We wanted to wait for that screen to be done, which was where they're now.
Gavin Tye:And then I've changed I've changed my, LinkedIn to incorporate, six sides as a founder. Have you done that to yours yet?
Mitchell Davis:I don't think so.
Gavin Tye:Word doc, maybe. But, anyway, we can we can sort that out, and then we'll start doing some lead generation into just trying to engage in conversation and get people interested and just see what they say. Right? I think there's a few different things I think we need to work on as well. Like, one, we're working on the app and what that looks like.
Gavin Tye:I suspect we probably need to look on the website, work on the website a little bit more, which you've got the wording around that. That's just filling that out just because people are gonna go there. Yeah. And ask if we reach out at the moment, it's under construction. So
Mitchell Davis:Yeah.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. And then from there
Mitchell Davis:Well, it might be worth just pausing on the mobile app. Like, I'm sure it wouldn't take too long to get. So what tool are we using for the website?
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Yep. One of the things that I'm like, what I'm trying to do is is try to lighten the load from you a little bit because I can see that it like, you've got many different things on. And so up until this business, I've deliberately stayed out of design and UI and UX just because as a salesperson, if you get caught up in the future, you'll start selling your future, then people won't buy today. So, and that's really, you start talking about, Hey, we're going to do this in the app in the next three or four months.
Gavin Tye:The people you're selling to go, Oh, right. Come back to me in three or four months. Right?
Mitchell Davis:Yeah.
Gavin Tye:So I've deliberately stayed out of it. Okay. My job has always been to sell what we can do today. Right? But I want to lighten the load and I think, and have some interesting points of view on what we're doing.
Gavin Tye:Right? Like us rounding out, I think us rounding out our knowledge or what, how we see things is actually making everything stronger. So I've been using Realoom just to structure the, some thoughts around the website and, use the wording. Yeah. Like, the wording, I think the website or the like, it's I call that marketing really needs to emanate or come from the strategy, which we have the strategy.
Gavin Tye:It doesn't come the other way around. So we've worked on that a little bit, and I've used that to help populate the messaging on the website. So
Mitchell Davis:Reloom. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So now it's my job to take what you've done in Reloom and then convert that into something that we can use.
Mitchell Davis:Reloom has you can export for React which is this like JavaScript framework. It's the preeminent one now on the web. It's our most new JavaScript websites are built at least, but we're using Vue on the marketing website and that's it's different so I've just got to convert that over but that's okay. That's like a perfect candidate for a chat GPT or a cursor or something like that to do so. Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Okay. That will be fine. I'd yeah. We then we need you've left quite a few gaps for photos. Right?
Mitchell Davis:So we need to go through and just find some photos, and I've got a bunch that I I can use, but I think we'll probably have to source some, then that's okay. We'll we'll figure that out. But, yeah, there's a bit of work to do there. I reckon it's probably only a day or two. Yep.
Mitchell Davis:And so maybe it is worth if, you know, you're about to embark on this lead gen and reaching out to more people, we do need to have our ducks in a row with the marketing site. So maybe that's worth me trying to tackle this week. I'll just hit pause on the app and that's okay. Like it's no problem. I'll then I can come back to it once we've got that sorted.
Mitchell Davis:So let's try and do that. Are we are you still wanting to record on Friday this week? Yeah. So that's only a few days away. So I'll try and have that done for for Friday's recording Yeah.
Gavin Tye:We have to get back on track. So, yeah, I think
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. We do.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. But yeah. So that's where but that's where I think I can lighten the load. Like, if we give you the framework and you're just doing, the messaging is, I think, mainly coming from me, which is my role. Right?
Gavin Tye:And and then and then we could just add to that. And then I think once we do that, we can put this link to this podcast up there and people can get to know us a little more. And if they're invested in us, I think it it'll start having an impact here.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. I look forward to that. That'll be cool to to have, like, instantly if the we push out a podcast episode and then the our marketing website updates not too long after. That's gonna be really cool, I think. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. So that's been good. And, again, trying to leverage as much as we can from AI and being consistent consistently using it. And, I found that really, really useful. So my plan is now is, and I don't use AI for lead gen messaging.
Gavin Tye:I use it for research and stuff like that, but the language doesn't quite fit for it. So, yeah, I've got a couple of lists that I'm gonna build out. I've got a few other things that I'm gonna build out as well. Yeah. We'll see how the next couple of weeks go while aim to get us a few conversations.
Gavin Tye:So yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Yeah. Awesome.
Gavin Tye:We've got Cool.
Mitchell Davis:Well, it's all we've
Gavin Tye:got the 10 still got the 10, the goal of 10, and I've also got the 2032 goal as well that we're working towards, which I've made some not headway. I've made some effort to bridge that gap too. So
Mitchell Davis:It's exciting. How are you feeling about about everything? I mean, it's a bit of a softball question. I can imagine you're excited.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. We've had a couple of setbacks in in sales in this last week. Like, the one one opportunity we thought was gonna come through. They've gone down another path with an app, which is disappointing. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:But, again, it just happens. The opportunity overseas looks like it's not gonna happen, but we've done everything that we can do. But reflecting, we're doing lessons learned on all this stuff. Right? So we're always doing lessons learned and, they don't if we're honest, they're not fitting our ideal target market, which is what we want to, hone in on.
Gavin Tye:So Yeah. And that's what we're gonna focus on. I'm gonna focus on in the next couple of couple of months is really focusing on that ideal target market. So
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. It would be no yeah. It it is a shame these few setbacks that we've had. It would be nice to have a product that appeals to a larger market right so anyone that's throwing an event and I think in time, we will. There's nothing intrinsically hey?
Mitchell Davis:Sorry.
Gavin Tye:Do you know how big that market is? That is massive. Like, capital city every city most there's an event per week all around the world. So I think I I think the hardness, you want it to be hard a a little bit because that hard, is your competitive advantage. Well well, it did separates you from a competition.
Gavin Tye:You need to go through the hardness and the difficulty, to to keep you away from competitors. Competitors who aren't their heart's not in it, they will give up. So Yeah. You need it to be hard to have that buffer. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:Or you get really, really good at delivering your value proposition, which I think we're not bad at, to be honest. Yeah. It's I don't know. Because I was talking to my wife last night, and she's talking about the caravan and camping show. She was like she she's getting to learn what we do.
Gavin Tye:And she's like, so six sides would be good on that. I was like, no. It's not. Because the goal is not to grow the community. Go the goal is to sell.
Gavin Tye:It's a different thing. And there's people who walk into a caravan and camping event, they don't they're not gonna set up a profile. Right? They have no
Mitchell Davis:need to set up
Gavin Tye:a profile. They have no need. The the the needs of that kind of conference or that kind of event is gonna be different. So
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Yeah. That's that's a great point. We're not gonna be the right fit for everyone. I would like in time if we were the right fit for more than just associations.
Mitchell Davis:Like, it does feel like these two opportunities that now, you know, at least one of them is a definite no, the other one feels like it's probably a no. It would have been great if we were in those, but and we were the right fit for them. But yeah. Look. It's early days, and it is what it is.
Gavin Tye:Think about Uber Eats. Like Uber. Uber just concentrated on car car, like, ride sharing for many years, and then they branched out into something else. Yeah. I think about we our attention is not a % in the business, so we just need to have one value proposition or one ideal persona or two, like or one business target.
Gavin Tye:And they're they're in the hundreds of thousands anyway. Yeah. But then once we we get that, then maybe there'd be a natural replication, which I think that is. I think we have that way to do that.
Mitchell Davis:So Yeah.
Gavin Tye:And then I think other things will come out of that on the other side in time. But yeah. Yep.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. No. It's it well, I'm I'm very excited. And this, like, next step, we talked last week about, okay, what's it gonna take for you to feel comfortable to not limit sales opportunities until we're ready? I'm really excited that you are feeling like we're you know, by no means are we ready ready the the app and the back end and everything.
Mitchell Davis:There's a lot of work to do, but we're moving in the right direction and just, yeah, you coming to me and saying, hey. I'm give me some screenshots. I'm gonna go start chatting with some, you know, some outside people. That's fantastic. I'm really excited.
Mitchell Davis:So Yeah. Things going in the right direction.
Gavin Tye:And that's why, like, looking at episode eight, our notes on Trello to today, it was like, oh, Jesus. You've done a we've done a lot in eight days or whatever. It's bit more than eight days. But, yeah, it's actually we are progressing pretty quick.
Mitchell Davis:Right? Yeah.
Gavin Tye:So
Mitchell Davis:Yep. And the trailer list seemed to keep getting bigger. Each week, we got more more stuff to talk about, so that's a good sign. It'll be a bit of a bummer if we come in one day and there's only one or two things on this. So we might have to keep, like, maybe through the week as we think of things as something comes up.
Mitchell Davis:Oh, we should add that. So that way we don't have to because we, you know, we kinda sit down ten minutes before we start recording and figure out, oh, okay. What are we gonna talk about? But it it was quite like, it was interesting this morning when we did that of looking at, oh, where were we a week ago? And it feels like forever ago.
Mitchell Davis:And it Yeah. It it was. It's over a week now because of the, you know, the the long weekends. That's how people say it. Total brain fart there.
Mitchell Davis:But, yeah, we we are moving along, so it's exciting. I'm really enjoying it still. So yeah. Guess we have.
Gavin Tye:Cool. It's it'd probably be a sign, objectively speaking, if we looked at this and it was nine weeks and we're like, we haven't really moved much. Like Yeah. We haven't really won much. Got nothing to report.
Gavin Tye:We haven't spoken to anyone. That's probably a sign that the business isn't gonna be successful. Right? Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Exactly. So every time that you tell me about a conversation that you've had with a prospect or whatever, I'm like, god, I'm so glad that you're on top of that because I just I know within myself, I would not be we would be nowhere near where we are right now if I didn't have you doing this. So I've just it it's every single time I'm like, god. This was the path that we've gone down.
Mitchell Davis:So, yeah, I'm just really pleased. This is I'm loving this. It's
Gavin Tye:great. Mate, it's vice versa. We were I was at dinner last night, and you sent those screenshots about the chat through. And I was having dinner, and I was with my friend Hayden, who's the person that recommended that we try to build a business that no more than 15 people. Like, he was really interested in what we're doing.
Gavin Tye:I sat down. I had a long conversation with him yesterday, and he's like, wow. This is really interesting. We're having dinner, and I was like, mate, look at this. We're having dinner, and and Mitch has done these screenshots.
Gavin Tye:Like, it's
Mitchell Davis:Yeah.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Like, that just would not happen.
Mitchell Davis:So It's cool. Right? Like, just it it almost feels a bit magical, and it's only through hard work. Right?
Gavin Tye:Come on, mate. No. No.
Mitchell Davis:But but hear me out. Yeah. The magical part is like, oh, stuff's just happening without me having to do it. You know? And you get to experience that as well anytime I get in and I if I'm inspired on a weekend and I knock out four hours of building out stuff and now the app has five new screens or whatever, and it's like that's just happened without you doing anything.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. It's really cool. Like it yeah. So it's very it's that's a there's a lot of people out there I think especially developers I guess like because that's who I know, but like me in the past with other ventures and things that I've built out of just being like, no. I wanna I wanna fully own this.
Mitchell Davis:I can do everything. You know? I'm I'm really capable. Let me tell you, it is so it's such a good feeling when your cofounder does something that you weren't involved with at all, and now your business is that much further along. Like, that's feels really great.
Mitchell Davis:So it it does feel kinda magical.
Gavin Tye:On on the flip side, Mitch, I I just don't know how someone I I've I've worked for founders that aren't technical, and then they rely on a development team. And I would imagine being so prescriptive. I this is what I reckon most most people do there is they engage with the agency, and they think they're invested as much as what they are, and they give them loosecom like, direction. We have loose conversations. We're not very tight.
Gavin Tye:Soon as we try to go very tight, I feel it doesn't work. Right? We we we try to go tight a couple of, like, really detailed on the on the app, and I and I honestly don't think I think our it doesn't it stifles your create creativity. Yeah. Don't have I don't talk in the language that you need for that to happen.
Gavin Tye:But if we talk to vision, then you go, well, okay. I've got a vision. Then I'll come back, and then we can fix it. I think that will probably figure out how it works. Right?
Mitchell Davis:Yeah.
Gavin Tye:But I know other founders that aren't technical, so they go to an agency and they probably try that high level speaking. That agency comes back. They don't care. They're getting paid. They do something that's completely off.
Gavin Tye:The amount of time that someone who's not technical would have to have their hands on in a product go through button by button and become detail orientated, no wonder, you know, you really gotta be dedicated. And if you've got a young family, like, you are giving up time with your family, and I don't wanna do that. Like, I'm like, I wanna be I'm a dad before anything. A dad and a husband before anything. And it's that level of, hey.
Gavin Tye:We're both invested that I think is really is great. Right?
Mitchell Davis:And It serves us both really well because you're right. It does stifle creativity. You've we had a call yesterday to go through some of those widgets on the home screen so we could prep for these screenshots that you wanted to shop around. And yeah, you- I didn't realize it, but I must have been a little cranky on the call because you you messaged me after him when you were like, hey. Is everything alright?
Mitchell Davis:You seemed a little frustrated. I was like, I thought about it, and, yeah, maybe maybe I was. And and what you've just said makes a lot of sense that it is don't really like being told what to do. I guess it's probably a part of why I've started my own business. And it I try I know for a fact with all of our projects that we work on for clients, I'm not just like phoning it in and neither is anyone on my team or that works on my behalf.
Mitchell Davis:We're not just, oh, yeah. Okay. I'll just put that there and that'll be fine. Like, I I I do go through and think I try and put myself in the shoes of the user or, you know, the client or whatever, but trying to think through all the different people involved. And I like that I get to do that.
Mitchell Davis:Those are my favorite projects where we get a where a client does come to me with just high level. Okay. And then you go and make it happen. And it's not because that client is lazy or doesn't care, but I really like that autonomy and agency that they're giving us to go and come up with a really good solution. Like, those are my favorite projects.
Gavin Tye:So Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. You and I sitting down and going through, like, button by button or whatever. Doesn't work. It Yeah. It it hasn't works.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. So And
Gavin Tye:I and I think I think probably this is actually a really good interesting conversation. Yeah. Like, I think talking at that high level and going, hey. Because I did that, what would on a dashboard be for the different sides? And I got a example and you got some.
Gavin Tye:It's maybe cursor just will allow you to build that to a degree, and then we amend what you've already done opposed to trying to figure out. And then because I don't because it it's interesting when you talk when we do it and we talk through it, and I have it sometimes I have a different perspective or or there's a couple of design things. I've been look at it this way, and you're like, oh, yeah. Right. That actually does look a lot better.
Gavin Tye:And it's just a final 10%. Like, it is additional 10%. Sorry. Yeah. You don't need me for all that other stuff.
Gavin Tye:You're that's your bread and butter.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Right? Yeah.
Gavin Tye:It's yeah.
Mitchell Davis:It's it it yeah. I think it really complements our skill sets, and I'm very glad you're not, like, over the top as far as wanting to come up with every single screen and how it should look and all of that because that really would just take away a bunch of the creativity that I get, and I enjoy that about the work that I produce. So, yeah, I'm glad that we're we're yet I think we're yet to have something some, like, trait that we both really feel super headstrong about. Yeah. I'll be very interested to see if and when that comes along how how we deal with it.
Mitchell Davis:But What did I say the other day in the car? I said, Mitch,
Gavin Tye:I feel really strongly about oh, that episode number hashtag. No. Was something Yeah. And then I was like, Mitch, I feel really passionate about this. You're like, okay.
Gavin Tye:We'll change it. Like and and Mel Mel, she heard it, and she thought it was really funny. Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:It's not a so what Gavin's talking about there is, with the titles of the podcast episodes, if you go back and look at them now, you will see that they all have, like, the number as a prefix on it. Okay. This is episode number nine. You know? But before, they were just the title.
Mitchell Davis:You know? It was just the words. And, yeah, you had come to me and said, hey. I I wanna do this. Do you think we should number them?
Mitchell Davis:And I was like, oh, but that's if you click on the episode, it already tells you what number it is. Like, Apple Podcast will do that or Spotify will do that. And you're like, no. I think this is the move. And then, yeah, you pulled out that card on me.
Mitchell Davis:I'm like, this is really important to me. I was like, okay. Alright. I guess I'll I guess I'll do it then. But then you were like, in your head, the the hash tag part, like the hash symbol was really important, I guess.
Mitchell Davis:And to me, I was looking at all the other shows that I look at, and none of them have a hashtag in it.
Gavin Tye:Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:So I just yeah. Anyway, so it was a bit of a
Gavin Tye:That's fine. Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:It was a bit of a learning moment for
Gavin Tye:like resolution, Mitch. We're we're brilliant at it.
Mitchell Davis:We talked about it in episode one, actually. So if you're curious, we talked to having this all of this, all these topics in Trello is awesome because I could just go back and see. So, anyway, well, why don't we wrap up there? So sorry for getting the episode out late, but at least you got an episode out today. And you can catch me on LinkedIn, Mitch Dav, and Blue Sky as well.
Mitchell Davis:Gavin, where can people find you?
Gavin Tye:Find me on LinkedIn. Gavin Ty. And, yeah, that's it.
Mitchell Davis:Yep. That'll do on my but
Gavin Tye:I don't use Twitter. So
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. I I don't either. I haven't in probably a year or two now. So yes. Alright.
Mitchell Davis:Excellent. Well, we will catch you all in the next episode. Alright? Thanks, mate.
