Hey. I'm Mitchell Davis, CTO and Laravel developer.
Gavin Tye:I'm Gavin Tye, CEO and sales and marketing.
Mitchell Davis:We are building sixsides.co. We sound like robots, mate. An events platform that helps you build a stronger community through events, and this is our B2B SaaS journey. How are going, mate?
Gavin Tye:Mate, how's it going? Mate, so you don't think that title resonates anymore? You think we've evolved from the the intro?
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. I think there's room to grow. You know, we're a year in. We could we could adjust what we say there, I think, a little and just, I don't know, just jazz it up. So maybe next episode.
Mitchell Davis:Stay tuned for next episode where we either have the same intro we've had for a year and a half or we we've jazzed it up.
Gavin Tye:So Yeah. Okay. I don't see how we're we are documenting our B2B SaaS journey. Maybe we're documenting our evolving business idea or something like that. Cause it is evolving, but our mission stays the same.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Oh, just, you know, variety is the spice of life, mate. You know? What about something like we are documenting our B2B SaaS journey. Our mission stays the same, but every week we have different objectives and
Gavin Tye:we get stressed, but we're still moving forward. How about that?
Mitchell Davis:That's a that's that's half the episode gone already.
Mitchell Davis:You next week. We might have to summarize that
Mitchell Davis:a little bit. Yes.
Mitchell Davis:Anyway, we'll
Mitchell Davis:leave it with us. We'll we'll work on it. Mate, huge week for us in terms of number of events. And, yeah, you you were at one of them. So do you wanna get into the CCF women in civil?
Gavin Tye:Yeah, it was a big, it was a big week. I think we mentioned last week we had five events in five days or something, including founders collective. So we had a founders collective walk on on Friday morning, met some really interesting founders on that. And then I went to, that was at 07:00 start. And then I went to the CCF women in civil event, which was at, 06:30 through to 09:30, on Friday night.
Gavin Tye:And that was interesting, as well. So they, they are more familiar with the platform and people are using it more, some more functionality was being used. Yeah. It was a great event and got to meet some great people. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:Got to yeah. It was,
Mitchell Davis:it was good. It's awesome.
Gavin Tye:It was good.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. I'm just having a look at the numbers now. There's 62 attendees in the app for women in civil, which is great. Did they take a few photos? Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:There's a couple. They've added some more. Lisa's added some more. Shout out to Lisa. So, yeah, it's seemed like it went really well.
Mitchell Davis:Right? Yep. You got to speak with with some people that, you know, could potentially be some leads for us, which was great.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. There's a few people that we wanna help, that we wanna help a couple of charities there that was were great. Yeah. There's a few photos here, but where I think it'll really, where it'll really pay dividends is with the official photographer. Cause there was official photographer, then it was also like an Instagram person walking around with a ring light, taking some photos.
Gavin Tye:So, once they go in there, I think we can get the people to come back in and then we'll press for those people to register and tag your writ. And then those photos will get associated to their profile. Perfect. Yeah, cool. That actually brings me to, we have a list on here of stuff we wanna talk about and I knew something that I was forgetting.
Gavin Tye:One thing we're not doing is, I don't think we're engaging with attendees of these events in the most effective way. We haven't activated our emailing list or, or we haven't actually tried to add value post event to them. We have, we sent out one email to the LaraCon team and the volunteering WA team. But I think, I think we could do more on that because on the weekend, a 100 people went into the platform in probably the last two days. Right.
Gavin Tye:Maybe more, maybe 130 people, if not. So, what are your
Mitchell Davis:thoughts on that?
Gavin Tye:Let's discuss. No,
Mitchell Davis:we should.
Mitchell Davis:We should definitely be doing that. It's just all goes to the point last week of like, there's just too much to do, you know? And so each of these things is hard to do. We've gotta hook up. You know, we use Bento for our, email sending and, yeah, we'll have to hook that up and then understand when an event has finished and then fire off an email and, you know, there's just, that's a project.
Mitchell Davis:That's a project.
Gavin Tye:So give me so Bento, when you say that, so like for me in my world, if I would do something like a, maybe HubSpot or, something, you know, active campaign. What's the difference between Bento and those things?
Mitchell Davis:To be honest with you, I don't know. I just, I know that Bento, we can send out. So this is like, I think the email is the domain is bentonow dot com I'm pretty sure. And yeah, it's like inside in the Laravel circle, which, you know, I run-in, it is kind of it's like one of the big email senders and it's probably the biggest that isn't like an Amazon, you know, or something like that.
Gavin Tye:Okay.
Mitchell Davis:Or a Mailchimp or whatever. So, yeah, I do know you can hook it up to be based on like sending you can send emails based on like events when things happen inside of your app. So we can go, okay, cool. Gavin just registered for Tag DeRit. That fires often.
Mitchell Davis:That could fire off an event. Okay. Hey, great. Gavin, amazing work. You know, in within a day or so, all of your photos, we're gonna send you all of your photos or something like that.
Mitchell Davis:Like we can you can fine tune it in Bento to go, okay, when these certain things happen, come up with some criteria and then send an email. Right. Right? So it yeah, it lets you get pretty granular with those sorts of things. We are not using any of that right now.
Mitchell Davis:We're just using it as effectively like a Mailchimp or a whatever, you know, because we're not sending any emails.
Gavin Tye:So it sounds like it's more of a developer framework, like a developer email as opposed to a numpty email provider, like what I would use.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. But you you it has those options, but you can just go in and send an email manually to a group of people like that. It does that as well. Okay. Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Right. Okay. Right. So it does sound like okay. So that that's
Gavin Tye:an interesting thing because we're not is it easy to see how many people have users are signed up to our platform, like across all events now while we're on this podcast?
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Yep. I can get that. You just want the number?
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Just the number. Right. Yep. I'll get
Mitchell Davis:you our users, the count of all users that we have in our in our database. I'll get it for you in 03/02, '1 and a hundred one zero one. Twelve sixty four users in our database. That's great. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. I wonder what we put in. Just going back to that grant that we put in. Remember the one we, weren't successful with? We said how many users we want in the dash in our database.
Gavin Tye:It was like Yep. Was only like 3,000, I think, maybe more. Yeah. 10,000. Okay.
Gavin Tye:This kind of brings us into, yes, this is an area where we need to work on, in, you know, delivering them a user guide and all that kind of stuff. Right. We could actually start working on this in time probably comes into, we're probably jumping ahead here is we're talking about hiring. Well, we're going to plan our first hires out. Right.
Gavin Tye:Are you laughing because I've just jumped around?
Mitchell Davis:Yes. You've gone from topic one to creating another topic two to now I think we're on, like, topic eight of the episodes.
Mitchell Davis:So all
Mitchell Davis:of the careful the careful planning that I do to kind of order things instantly goes
Gavin Tye:Hang on. Hang Hang on. Careful planning. We made the bloody list about two minutes ago.
Mitchell Davis:I know. And then I I review
Mitchell Davis:it. Planning.
Mitchell Davis:Come on. Review it to make sure it actually makes sense. You are not good at following a a checkbook.
Gavin Tye:Behind the curtain. Come on. This is bullshit. Careful planning. But anyway, well,
Mitchell Davis:hang on. About topic eight, mate. No, no, no, Look.
Gavin Tye:It's topic three now, mate. Moved it.
Mitchell Davis:It tell us.
Gavin Tye:I wonder if, when we do, we are thinking about hiring, which we'll probably talk about more in detail in topic eight.
Mitchell Davis:No, we're talking about it right now since you've opened the flood gates.
Gavin Tye:We're gonna at least start hiring a developer and a marketing slash lead generation person to help across the business. I wonder if we could like stipulate, have experience in Bento. Right. I'm sure because then we can actually task them with writing a series of emails for these specific actions. And then we can get them set up and reviewed.
Gavin Tye:And then all that, I guess then your job would be is just connecting them to the, to the trigger.
Mitchell Davis:Right? Exactly. Yes. So I fire off those events under the hood over to Bento and then whatever said marketing person has done will automatically kick in.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That, that that's really interesting. So I think that's, we're not utilising that very much, but then also we don't have a pathway to something else from that, but, there was so much there.
Gavin Tye:We can start connecting stuff.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Yep. A 100%.
Gavin Tye:Mate, so tell us about, in addition to what we were talking about, we're hiring. What else are we thinking you're doing?
Mitchell Davis:We are looking at hiring a developer. So, in time, hopefully in the next month or so, we actually wanna expand this out to maybe hire up to three developers, but, that's kind of contingent on something else that I'll bring up in a minute. So for now, we're looking at just hiring one, full time developer. They will be, based in The Philippines. So, yeah, we're we're looking to get some help because basically if you listen to last week's episode, like, we're both slammed here.
Mitchell Davis:There's so many things that we want to build and that we need to, you know, to try and really grow this business. And we have a lot of opportunities that we could be going after, but there's just not enough time for either of us to be able to work on it. So that's why we're looking to hire some help in both sales and development. Right. Or marketing and dev.
Mitchell Davis:So, yeah, so we've got plenty of projects that we could look to hand off to, someone else and just have them start kicking away at at some projects. And I'm pretty excited about it because it will free me up to focus on maybe bigger picture stuff instead of just all the little aspects that we need to get in and and finish. And then especially if we can, so hiring more developers is contingent on us winning, project rendezvous,
Mitchell Davis:which
Gavin Tye:has You been just jumped down the list to number seven now, mate. Come on.
Mitchell Davis:Jeez. So if we didn't move, item eight to be item three, it would have made more sense.
Mitchell Davis:Woah. That's a cat hole in the kettle blood. Come on, I don't think it is. I don't think it is. But but anyway, so project rendezvous has been in the works now for, like, six months or something like that, and it's getting very close.
Mitchell Davis:So we've got some why don't this is more your domain. Why don't you take this and then I'll steer us back to the hiring more?
Gavin Tye:Yeah. So we've got, we've spoken to project Rendezvous, and they wanna move ahead. They really want us. So we've just done an adjustment of pricing, for them. We're not gonna, we're not gonna reduce the scope as much.
Gavin Tye:We're going to, since we originally submitted the price, we have started developing AI, to help with setting up the configuration and administration of the event. So that has kind of changed the scope indirectly because we can offload a lot of that to AI. And so another thing we wanna do is what's more, what's really important to us is build is awareness and getting our name out there. So we've actually said, okay, we can reduce the price, but we would really appreciate as long as you see value that you build, help us with the awareness and they're like, yeah, absolutely. Like they, they're, I think they're already gonna do it anyway.
Gavin Tye:I think they generally believe, in us and what we're trying to do. They're we generally, I think this is gonna be a really strong partnership. And so I'm actually, this is one of the most exciting projects that I've ever been in. Should we be successful in this? And, we are, they're in there, They're going to go back to their leadership team and then get final approval.
Gavin Tye:I will talk to them this week hopefully, and then we can have a plan. But this is, I am, this will be, I don't know, this would be, I feel like it's always hard to say, you can tell in hindsight, whether it was really impactful or not, but I feel like this is something that will take us to another level. I'm already trying to take these, these learnings, implying it to another massive opportunity that we reviewed a white paper on last week. Yeah. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:It's, I don't know. It just feels like this is, this is interesting, written, not interesting. It feels like there's a big word monumental to be honest.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Certainly business trajectory changing for us right now. Would be because they, because now back to hiring, it does unlock us growing.
Mitchell Davis:You know, this this amount that we, you know, the price that we have now scoped down to with them, it is not a like full time get you into the business full time. But what it does do is it allows us to hire more so that we can grow a bit quicker. Yep. A lot quicker. So Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Like we we've looked at this and the amount of hours of work that we'd be able to to get finished with some developers here over the next, twelve months that this would easily fund and then some. How many how many thousand was it? Six thousand hours or something?
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Yeah. Around yeah. Between five somewhere between three nine and five nine depending on what we do. So but, five nine, five thousand nine hundred hours, which is managed correctly and leveraging AI and cursor and all that kind of stuff.
Gavin Tye:You're like, absolutely game changing. And it feels like in all honesty, you've been working ten years plus to be able to do this because you're an agency and you're assigning work to your team for clients. Now it's, you don't have to go through this learning curve. You may have to go through a learning curve or engaging with, the different culture, but, but yeah, it's, it's honestly, I'm really excited about it. One of the things that I have run my been thinking a lot about is when to hire.
Gavin Tye:And at the moment you are so close to the red line of any, any massive increase in workload is you go into the red line too quick. You're running too far to the, too close to the ceiling at the moment. And I'm almost there to myself. Right. And so what I've been thinking about is when we start hitting towards that sixty hours of weekly work, and it's probably fifty is probably manageable because we do do disin hours is we have to look at offloading some of that capacity onto someone else.
Gavin Tye:And then vice versa, when they start reaching that capacity, if we don't deal with that, we'll have churn. Right. And then churn is the indirect cost of that and the opportunity cost is just crippling. So
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. And I never want to I strongly mandate this within Atlas and you know, we're just a small team of two, but I never let deadlines and stuff push in on Chris who works for me at Atlas. Right? So I want that culture Me too. With anyone that we hire here under six sides.
Mitchell Davis:Like that's that's your and my responsibility to manage the business properly so that that doesn't impact our hires. Right?
Gavin Tye:So Yeah. Yeah. I would love to be an employer of choice. Right? Yeah.
Gavin Tye:And yes, I think in some instances we're going have to ramp up and ramp down, but if only happens every couple of months and then we'll go, know it's only temporary. I think, that's our responsibility here. And I think doing it in the right way, we can build a sustainable business. I, and I do think we're in a lucky time is five years ago, it would have been headcount that, oh, we're at sixty hours. We have to hire headcount now where I think we're in a lucky position that it's either headcount or agents.
Gavin Tye:Not sure how to build the agents all the time, but, but I think we have that ability to go, can we, do we need a person to do this or can we have an agent? And I think if we do that in that way, in the right way, which I don't under, I don't have an answer for now, we may be able to build this business with like 10 people, Like, over
Mitchell Davis:You'd always had that goal of seven people. Yeah. Seven, seven to 10. Now seven can do the work of, you know, 30 Yeah. So anyway, we will see.
Mitchell Davis:So, yeah, the plan is this week to get job ads up for both roles. So developer, but then also someone in have to figure out the right titles, but in lead gen and admin marketing, a bit of an all rounder there. Yep. And yeah. So we I expect we would get quite a few applicants pretty quickly.
Gavin Tye:Especially for the lead gen because I think it's probably for me because the lead gen we're looking at splitting across Deal Buddy and also Six Sides for now. Right? Yeah. Having someone being able to handle my calendar better so I can take more clients will be good as well. Or my admin tasks.
Gavin Tye:So, figuring out what that might look like, it could, there could be a cheaper rate. It could be too. I don't know. Yeah. But I think we need to start being a bit more strategic on that now and have to figure out how to grow a business instead of working in it.
Gavin Tye:We're at that point. I think the signs are there, to be honest. Yep. Yep. It's like when
Mitchell Davis:I was Taking the risk.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. When I was an employee and I said, I've either got a shit or get off the pot when I decided to start sales market fit. And it, it guesses teething, but I think we're at a, at a
Mitchell Davis:point where we can do it. This is our own next leap. Can say. Put that in the podcast. Check out the leap by Gavin Tye.
Gavin Tye:We have a great interview coming up this week. Yep. By way. Yep. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:God with John. Amazing. We could learn a lot of lessons from him. He was a great guy. Yep.
Gavin Tye:Okay.
Mitchell Davis:Awesome. Alright. Cool. So, mate, what else? That's the hiring.
Mitchell Davis:We will obviously keep you posted. Yep. You know, as we start moving down that path next week. Sure. But, yeah, look forward to that.
Mitchell Davis:Project Hammer. So project hammer. Yeah. So this, for those that don't know, it does have a code name. You can go back and listen to a few episodes.
Mitchell Davis:We're not for those that are new, this is a an association that we put a code name on. So we're not telling you who they are yet. Maybe in time. But for now, they're Project Hammer. And we've now run two events.
Mitchell Davis:Is that right? Yeah. Just the two for them.
Gavin Tye:Yep. Contracted for another three. So
Mitchell Davis:Is it three more? Wow. Really?
Gavin Tye:Here we go.
Mitchell Davis:I thought it was only two more. So yeah. So they ran their second event. This one was in Brisbane, and that was on Saturday. And Yep.
Mitchell Davis:This is where the title potentially the title of this episode has come from that you and I both kind of had separate moments of clarity of thinking like, wow, how cool is this that there's an event running right now using our system that, yes, we were involved in the setup of that had absolutely nothing to do with on the day. And, you know, this business was making money out of it. Right? Because it they're a paying customer. And I texted that to you, I think.
Mitchell Davis:What did I say? Let me go over them. So I texted you, how great is it to have an event running that we got paid to run and neither of us are having to do anything for it? Love this. And you said, yep.
Mitchell Davis:I was trimming some trees this morning, and we were getting paid to do that. I I thought the same thing and thought this is the benefits of having a software business. So I wasn't quite lawn mowing. I thought you said you were lawn mowing, but I guess the the episode of the title can be that's tree trimming money because you were getting paid while trimming the trees, mate. Like, it's it's fantastic.
Mitchell Davis:It's finally feels like we're arriving. You know? Our bank account is as healthy as it's ever been, which allows us to do some of this hiring. Yep. And yeah, just feels great.
Mitchell Davis:Like, it's nice. I've been waiting for this moment for eighteen months now or thereabouts. Right? Where it's like, okay, stuff is just happening. Money is coming in without us having to do every little thing for it, you know, compare this to Laravel live Denmark, you know, where I was up till 2AM or whatever, and things were kind of falling apart at times.
Mitchell Davis:Right? And how stressful that was compared to this where yep. I sure. I logged in and I had a quick look at the PlanetScale database to just see, okay. How's CPU?
Mitchell Davis:How's memory going? Barely noticed a blip. And we're on like the cheapest, planar scale database at the moment. Right? So fantastic.
Mitchell Davis:And that was it. That's all I had to do. Sure. It's just working. It's just amazing.
Gavin Tye:Can you give me potentially oh, wait. There's no data in there because they're only using a little bit of it. We know how many people, how many people signed up for that? Like in that one. Cause it doesn't tell you.
Gavin Tye:So there's been an ever like, I think it's, what's really interesting here is the evolution of, how we- 01/1945. Okay. 145. Yeah. Right.
Gavin Tye:So it's interesting that those people aren't showing up in the attendee list because they haven't put a name in there. Right?
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. So that's a that's something that we will address in time. We'll make it so you can't claim a ticket code unless you've got your full name in
Gavin Tye:there. Okay.
Mitchell Davis:It's just a limitation of the way we're leveraging WorkOS. Yep. It's no one's fault, but we can fix it.
Gavin Tye:Yep. So the evolution, like, the challenge we had last week is we were setting up for founders collective project hammer, the NC, NSCA event, marinas, and also CCF. And it got very confusing over time because we had about all these checklists going on of what we were doing task list or what we had to do. But with project HAMR with Joe is we first set up one with us. I don't think we used a dashboard for that one in particular.
Gavin Tye:Well, maybe we did, but anyway, and then we're rolling out more functionality. We could duplicate the first one to the second one. And now what I want to do is I want to bring Jo into the next one and have her do use the chat function. And so she can set it up herself and then we will evolve that lets her just set up the next one without our help and she can have it all set up and then we're completely removed from the process. I, I do think that there's some stuff there we need to add in, which we, we know add in like images and links and all that kind of stuff for the sponsors and all that kind of stuff.
Gavin Tye:But the evolution of this, I want to get to the end of the fir the third one to go and we'll have a complete event managers playbook. And so that'll be set up and we can eventually hopefully get the rest of their business from there. So, it's great to see the evolution over time. And more importantly is we were at our complete limit at five, five events setting up. Right.
Gavin Tye:We need to remove ourselves from that process so we can actually just help with every now and then not the whole thing. And we're so close to doing that, which unlocks so much. Right?
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Mate, it's yeah. It's fantastic. So I do know there's a few more holes that we have to fill in with like the AI assistant, uploading some photos, logos, things like that. But, yeah, you can already do most things using the AI, and then there's fallbacks to using like our just normal user interface to go add a link to a sponsor or whatever.
Mitchell Davis:Like, you can do all those sorts of things. So I think we are down to just there's a few little bugs there of like you can't unassign a speaker and a couple things like that, and you can't upload logos. But that's about it as far as I know. So, yeah, it'll be good this week. Are you thinking this week we'll get Joe, into the platform for the next project hammer?
Gavin Tye:Yes. Yep. Cool. I So actually used the comp the AI to redo the conference list for, the conference sponsors for marinas the other day. So, cool.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. So I redid it with mucked around a little bit and you can't actually delete something specifically. So you have to use the AI to delete it. But it was, it was pretty, it was okay. Right.
Gavin Tye:So we could actually, fix all that stuff up. There's a couple of glitches in there, which we'll go through and have a look at it. But it was, in general, in general, it was pretty good.
Mitchell Davis:Alright. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Okay.
Mitchell Davis:Well, those glitches now let's get into how we're doing project management here. So anything that you find, any of those little bugs that all needs to go into linear as we know. Right? Yeah. So this past week, we've had a bit of a we had to kinda sit down and chat through how do we actually plan out, like, what we are working on for, you know, the next six months or twelve months, things like that.
Mitchell Davis:Because you're more thinking long term and I'm thinking very short term because I've gotta go implement these things now basically. And that's a direct byproduct of the fact I'm the only dev working on this right now. Right? I don't have time to think about or mental capacity to think about six months down the line when I have to build it now. Right?
Mitchell Davis:So, yeah, so we went and talked through about, okay, how can we actually structure out some sort of roadmap for the next six months? Right. And this does align a bit. It brings in the project rendezvous, which if we get it, there's like a lot of work that needs to be done and certain timelines that need to be met. So, yeah, we were kinda going through and trying to think think about all of that.
Mitchell Davis:And then we started out with like a Google Sheet of, okay, hey, here's some different projects that we can work on. And it was all like it was a bit confusing, I think, probably for both of us to go through and try and align like, where does work for example, we wanna add like chat to the mobile app. Right? And allow attendees to message each other similar to like Telegram or WhatsApp or whatever but inside of the app. And trying to figure out, okay, well that's not just a feature for the mobile app, there's also like a backend for the API that we need for that and then the, the dashboard, we wouldn't report on those.
Mitchell Davis:Like, we wouldn't display those conversations that'll remain private, but like having any reporting on it and things like that is flow on effects for all this stuff. And, yeah, just that is one of, like, 15 different projects that we're, like, considering that we need to get built over the next, you know, twelve months or something. And so, yeah, it's been a bit tricky to sit down and reflect on where everything is at and how's the best way to go forward. So what we then settled on, you and I sat down for like an hour, right, and went through some different ways that we might be able to plot all of this stuff out. And we've settled on linear, which is what we use, what I've used for a couple of years now under Atlas with our clients.
Mitchell Davis:Linear, for those who don't know, it's like project management for software development. So it's got like you can set up sprints and assign labels and move yeah. Anyway, it's like it does a lot of stuff. And, yeah. So we came up with this plan of, we will put together these kind of high level project scopes, which should just include, okay, hey, this is what this project is about.
Mitchell Davis:So use chat as an example. So go through and just explain in a few paragraphs like this is ultimately what we're trying to build and how it should look and feel, just the high level stuff, and then break it down into, okay, these are all of the aspects that would need to be added or modified about the system to achieve that and kind of bullet point those. Because in linear, you can then turn each of those into like sub tasks that could be assigned to a developer. So that's
Gavin Tye:kind
Mitchell Davis:of where we've landed. And then we'll have like, we've got one bucket of ideas that we could go build out. And then as it's time to start picking up the next project, then we can take it from that list. So that can be prioritised. So that way we know, okay, this chat is more important than, you know, doing x y z or whatever.
Mitchell Davis:We can prioritise that and then kind of pull those off. We can also set due dates on things and give estimates of like, okay, this is roughly how long this is gonna take, etcetera. So I think all of this will pay dividends when we have, a developer or a few developers on because it'll be really clear what work is coming up next. Yeah. It's So how did that all feel for you?
Gavin Tye:I think the challenge here is, is operations and dev, like, like call me operations, client facing and development is they don't have tools that cross pollinate easily, right? Like as linear as a development project management tool, it's not necessarily, that's where I think is, I'm trying to think about what are the different areas that we could focus on in the business and then trying to align it into, well, I had stages, but GPT said, do it on horizons on timelines. But then if we go too granular down, which is I understand that you need that because you need to know what we're doing, but then was like, well, we need to look up and see where we're gonna go. Like, it's so confusing to to be able to do that. Even then I just had an evolution of my thought just on what you were saying is maybe the, Oh, so yes, I do agree on the principle of doing projects as a high level.
Gavin Tye:And then within that certain projects, so break it down. Yeah. Yeah. But even with chat, chat is just a piece of functionality. It's not necessarily aligned with the stage of all these mother potentially other codependencies.
Gavin Tye:Right. That, that align with that. So I was just thinking about that as you spoke and we could, we're looking at project run of view as an example, we look at stage one, stage two, maybe we can talk through on exactly what we want to deliver in stage one and not in linear. As an example, I just create a document, a stage one, like a vision or a plan for the, for what we want to achieve. That we could even dictate that to chat GBT and have a plan out as a doc and go, yep.
Gavin Tye:That's yes. We want to kind of deliver that. Okay. Well, let's break that down into projects and then go from there. Right.
Gavin Tye:And that's more like the vision then that's the plan. And that's the roadmap, like the, like something like that, because I do feel like there's still a part missing above. And I feel like that, what I just mentioned there might bridge that gap a bit. Sure.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Yeah. Well, I talked with you about like, totally fine for you to go have a separate set of like documents or spreadsheets or however you need to map projects so that you've got the proper understanding. All that we need in linear is okay this is the work at at a high level this is the work that needs to get done and then I can take it from there and make it up into you know 25 different subtasks that all need to be done to achieve this thing. You don't need to be involved in any of that stuff right?
Gavin Tye:Yeah. But
Mitchell Davis:yeah, like linear won't be a one tool to fit all. It's not one size fits all. Right? So, yeah, of course, more than happy for for that all to be maintained somewhere else. But what we can do though in linear, and it is quite handy is to have like a bit of a timeline projection and go, okay, if under stage one, right, we need to have six projects done that that make that up.
Mitchell Davis:Right? Then we can go assign. Okay, cool. This is roughly gonna take two weeks. This is gonna take three days, whatever.
Mitchell Davis:And you can kind of slot it into a timeline and zoom out and go, okay, wow, that's a whole quarter gone. Right?
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Yep. Can do that sort of thing. It's handy.
Gavin Tye:That's what we need. Right? I do think that's what we need. So
Mitchell Davis:especially as we hire. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. And I do remember, like we were speaking about last week, we're trying to associate stuff to revenue, like in some instances like chat, aren't associated to revenue, but a stage could be. Right?
Mitchell Davis:Yeah.
Gavin Tye:By the end of it. We can talk about that. And some of this could be revenue generating and some of it won't be, but we at least know at the end we've spent five hundred hours on doing something. We like, we need to focus on recouping that cost or turning that into a positive, like some type of revenue thing. So I do, I will work on that a little more.
Gavin Tye:That does make sense in my mind. I just need to plan that out a little bit. Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Gavin Tye:Okay.
Mitchell Davis:Yep. So yeah, we'll, we'll continue honing in on it together. But, yeah, it was it was a bit I could tell on that call that you were a bit like, oh, okay. I don't know about this. And so, yeah, I just I was really trying hard to try and get every, get both of us happy with some sort of solution.
Mitchell Davis:It feels like we're, we're there or we're getting there. I appreciate you sticking to that at the end, because frustrated. You're like, no, no, no,
Gavin Tye:no, no. It doesn't work if you're frustrated. And then it was like, no, no, let's work it through. And then you made me work it through and then it actually turned out positive. Whereas potentially I would have just probably just gone, okay, just do it.
Gavin Tye:And then I may have done something in two weeks, but we definitely weren't on the same page. And so I went away and thought about it a bit and it was like, okay, so I appreciate that you doing that.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. We just, we have to make it work. Right? And I know that like, this is a tool that is built to make software. I know ultimately it can probably do what you're after, but I hadn't sold it to you.
Mitchell Davis:Right. And it just alright. We gotta get there. And so even now, that's what I'm saying. Like, okay, don't even use this until you've got the big picture.
Mitchell Davis:And then we go in like this, we can make it work. Right? But I just I could tell Gavin is not bought in right now. We need
Gavin Tye:It's not easy. Like, it's what's easy for you is just not easy for in for my life.
Mitchell Davis:Just different. It's just different because if you look at what is actually required to add a ticket, it's so minimal. Like, it is nothing. It's it's like Trello. That's easy.
Mitchell Davis:I get it.
Gavin Tye:No, that's easy. Yes, of course that's easy, but it's not easy matching the vision or the plan like, and breaking it because most plans and high level plans don't go down into chunks. Right? It's like an architecturally designed home. It's not in down to the detail level of laying foundations and what Rio bar that you need to put in and how thick the concrete is and what's the plumbing specifications.
Gavin Tye:It doesn't think that. And I'm thinking in a different architecturally designed like thing, if that makes
Mitchell Davis:sense. It does. Yeah. A 100%.
Gavin Tye:Anyway, we'll get to, you know We will. We are not unique. I'm sure every business has this has this challenge. Right? So No.
Mitchell Davis:That's right. Alright. Cool. Well, we've got, the National Safety Conference, that's running on six sides this week, so that starts tomorrow. So we just got like I I think the only thing that remains for that is I've gotta go add their sponsor logos because we still can't do that by the dashboard nor by the AI, unfortunately.
Mitchell Davis:So and they've got, like, 20 sponsors, so I gotta go. I got a bit of work to do, and I'll I'll get that done this afternoon. But, yeah, really excited about that. That's awesome to have another event in there. So we should be able to report on that by the end of the week how that went Yep.
Mitchell Davis:For next week's episode.
Gavin Tye:Just maybe have a look on that one there. Like, keep see what let's see what analytics we can pull out to demonstrate some type of value or an outcome that they may not necessarily get a like awareness or, like, have the ability of. Whether it's just stats and give me the stats and I'll see if I can turn it into a report. Okay. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:Yep.
Mitchell Davis:Alright. We'll talk about that through the week. What else? I think we can probably hold on, on this one. Just a little, marketing website update.
Mitchell Davis:We we're currently using Leadfeeder, to recognise who's on our website and, it it's great for what it does, but, it doesn't really go in-depth, at least not on the plan that we're on. So, we're gonna look at adding Posthog. It's something that we have talked about in the past and just never really pulled the trigger, but the more people we speak to about, oh, what do they do on their websites? Feels like almost everyone that has, like, meaningful analytics on their site is using Posthog.
Gavin Tye:So Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:This week I'm gonna get that added to the site. Should be pretty simple. So yeah. So hopefully we'll have that and then we could start learning more about who's visiting us. Yep.
Mitchell Davis:And then, yeah, we do have ambitions. It's another project to work on the marketing website and transform, like, what we do especially on our homepage. We wanna try and incorporate giving people like a live preview basically of, okay, if they spun up their event quickly inside of our app, could we like, how far could we take that journey and give them like a code that they could use on our mobile app to quickly see their event or something like that. Like, we got lots of ambitions there, but we've gotta scope that out. And yeah, now that's another project that, you know, kinda goes to the list of, you know, 15 projects that we could work on.
Mitchell Davis:So Yep. I'm excited to have more bandwidth that, you know, more engineering time that we can, I could go work on that, you know, instead of needing to work on other things to kind of keep the business going? Yeah. Just it's it's exciting times. Right?
Mitchell Davis:So
Gavin Tye:think I it's safe to say we're going through a massive period of change right now. Like last year was like, we're just trying to establish ourselves and now we're going through a period of growth and all the growth pains that come with that and, and trying to maintain high quality, service product and, while bringing on, others, a number of other people. Right. So, yeah. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:And, and all still, we're trying to fund it ourselves. Like we're still, we're still trying to do this bootstrap where project rendezvous will help us do that for the next twelve months. And hopefully that will help see us do that. We'll grow from there and continue on. And I think the simple formula is, is revenue.
Gavin Tye:If revenue is greater than spend, we don't need to raise capital. Right?
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Yeah. And right now we're in a, we are in a good period even without project rendezvous yet. Like things are going well, which is great. But yeah, I mean, the the funding conversation could be back on the table if some other things don't Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Go well. Right? But for now, yeah, very hopeful to remain bootstrapped.
Gavin Tye:So Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:We're right on the edge. So hopefully, we'll
Mitchell Davis:hear pretty soon about project rendezvous,
Mitchell Davis:and then we can do the big reveal.
Gavin Tye:I'll message him straight after this as well. Yeah. So here's a here's a question for you. We're only talking about devs here and also marketing traditional roles. When do we start thinking about an agent builder?
Gavin Tye:Like, sure you can build agents, but it's probably not your strongest skill that you've done that you have. So when do we hire someone to come in and go look at the workflow of doing things and go, yeah, I can build that. Because like I always said, we met a guy on a founder's walk and he's doing something with his marketing site. Like maybe there's value in that. Like building someone who knows how to do that.
Gavin Tye:Right?
Mitchell Davis:Maybe. Yeah. I need to learn more anyway. So I think like this, it really depends on how much money we have to be honest, because that is not gonna be a cheap person to hire for one. And two, like, I am learning more consciously.
Mitchell Davis:I'm making a decision to learn Okay. But yeah, I mean, I'm certainly open. We could get someone to consult with us for a couple hours and show me some things that I don't know. Yeah. That would be awesome and probably a lot more affordable than having someone like hiring someone to build that for us.
Gavin Tye:Well, it could be just a developer from The Philippines that knows how to do it. Could be. Yep. Yep. Yep.
Gavin Tye:I'm sure they've I'm sure they'd be trying to upskill themselves. Yeah. To try to get in, but then maybe that's like, we go, okay, well let's make a list of potentially 50 agents that we could employ across the business. And once you get to a point is now you can probably, you can build one and you should learn too. Right?
Gavin Tye:Like, but maybe we get to a point and go, okay, now we're at 20 and we can't now there's now it's outgrowing outstripping your ability to deliver. Then maybe we actually, hire them for that. Like, yeah. Okay.
Mitchell Davis:Don't know.
Mitchell Davis:Stuff there to think about for sure. Yeah. Okay. Cool, mate. Did you have anything else?
Gavin Tye:No, mate. No, I do not. That's it. How about you?
Mitchell Davis:No. I'm good. I'm good.
Gavin Tye:Where can people find you, Mitch?
Mitchell Davis:You can find me on LinkedIn under the handle Mitch Dev, also in some other places, online. So we got links to everything in the show notes. What about yourself, mate?
Gavin Tye:Mate, same LinkedIn. That's where. Gavin Tye. Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:T y e.
Gavin Tye:T y e.
Mitchell Davis:You didn't say you didn't say the t y e. You throw me off you.
Gavin Tye:They don't know it by now.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. That's true.
Mitchell Davis:No worries. Alright. Well, we will keep you all posted next week, and stay tuned hopefully for a new intro script. And, yeah, we'll catch you all then. See you, mate.