Hey. I'm Mitchell Davis, a Laravel developer.
Gavin Tye:A sick Laravel developer today. I'm Gavin Ty, head of sales and marketing at team of two at Six Sides. Welcome to our b to b SaaS journey. Trying to line the line. Mitch, I know you got a blurb.
Gavin Tye:Sorry. Finish off.
Mitchell Davis:We are building sixsides.co. It's an events platform that helps you build a stronger community through events. This is our b to b SaaS journey. Thank you for jumping the gun. Yes.
Mitchell Davis:Let's get right out in front of it. I am sick. Since Tuesday, the last three days I've been coughing and fevering and carrying on. It's all going on. So I made it in today.
Mitchell Davis:I'm sorry if you don't like how I sound when I'm sick as you're listening to this. I'm sorry. It might be a tough episode for you, but the show must go on, and it's going on today.
Gavin Tye:We rest for no one.
Mitchell Davis:We
Gavin Tye:know no. Nothing.
Mitchell Davis:And you're Nothing will stop us from doing this podcast.
Gavin Tye:You're the opposite to most people when they get sick. When you cough, you turn bright red. So like you get, instead of going pale, you're you're like a traffic
Mitchell Davis:light. Dunno.
Gavin Tye:Is I've lot got some feedback. I I went to talk about founders collective in a second, but, someone who was there goes, mate, I listened to your podcast. I was about to send you an email. Then I thought, ah, fuck it. They're not gonna read it anyway.
Mitchell Davis:No. Should have listened to the episode a week earlier and then you could have
Gavin Tye:could have to Gavin O'Hare. Like, if he listens to this one. Yeah. I thought it was really funny. Right?
Gavin Tye:He he thought it was a it was a laugh. I've even Rolly, a lot of people have given feedback goes, god, you guys are having so much fun and smashing it because it's great.
Mitchell Davis:So Yeah. But not enough to send us an email, I guess.
Gavin Tye:No. Wait. But you've scared everyone off. Like, are you
Mitchell Davis:I don't think that's the case. Not at all. I gave so many opportunities.
Gavin Tye:You're trying
Mitchell Davis:to blame them.
Gavin Tye:Don't send us some email. Like, we don't really want it, but yet you really
Mitchell Davis:want I wanted to catch.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Right. Yep. Is that how you got Nicole right? Because she's well above, well, well out of your league.
Mitchell Davis:Oh, wow. Yeah. Thanks mate. Yeah. Anyway, look, why don't we get into it with the founders collective?
Mitchell Davis:So, why don't you tell us what it is, when it happened, how did it go? Give us the rundown.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Sure. So I think last week we spoke about an upcoming event, called the founders collective, which I'm running in Brisbane. So the cleft nodes are, is, a lot of founders, early stage founders or business owners, you know, often working from home these days. Right.
Gavin Tye:They're not often in the city and it can be lonely. Like I work in this room at home by myself all day. Right. Some days Mel's at home, but three out of the five she's not. And even when she's here, she's doing her own work stuff.
Gavin Tye:Right. So it's actually lonely, right. Being an early stage business owner. So we thought we'd get this, Roman Galakoff and I would put this, group together, this meetup, called founders collective. We thought we'd get 10 people to commit to it, 120 RSVP'd.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Way more than we thought. Like I have a connect network in Queensland here about 1,800 business owners. And I had to stop it at 300 going out to these people just because it was we've got way more response than we anticipated. So fast forward to Wednesday night, we ran our first event.
Gavin Tye:Right. We, and we are using six sides as the, foundation of it. Right. Yeah. There's some, some big lessons come out of it.
Gavin Tye:First and foremost is, well, one, it was great, but the, people loved it. But we just didn't give them enough time to have download the app. Like it was, we sent a message out like the night before, and it was just too compressed of time. They, by the time they got to the event, there's a lot of people around talking. I think people need five minutes of concentration to download the app, fill out their profile and their details, and they just didn't have it.
Gavin Tye:We also were not intentional around the behavior we wanted. So we all go to meetups, right? We all go to networking functions and everyone kind of does the same thing. Like they go in and say hello, but they often stick to, you know, it's quite predictable behavior and what goes on at these events. We're trying to change that and use connection and use gamification for people to connect, but we never drove that.
Gavin Tye:And it was a really good lesson. Like whatever behavior we want, we need to make sure we encourage that behavior. Like six sides is not a magic bullet. It can facilitate it, but it still needs people to facilitate the action that we want. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. So, but generally overall, the vibe was fantastic. Everyone said this is one of the funnest meetups that we've been to in a long time. Like, this is great.
Mitchell Davis:How good is that? Yeah. Like, is they're saying, look, it's lonely. A lot of people
Gavin Tye:saying, I don't know other business owners. My friend group does not, they're not business owners. Right. They're not, they don't understand what I'm doing. And that's the whole hypothesis of doing this is to try to help people connect.
Gavin Tye:You know, it was, it was, it was really, really fun at the end. Was like, God, I've haven't talked to so many people in that long, that long, but you know, I learned a lot about six sides. You know, there's a, had a call afterwards. There was some designed conversation we had around a couple of things around tag your writ, some feedback of people getting into the app and, you know, it's, it's such a great testing ground for one, the app, but more importantly, I want to help business owners and stuff like that. And so founders collective is starting to grow.
Gavin Tye:Right. People are interested in the next one. I'm already thinking about how we would add value to the community because it can't all be meetups and having beers. Right. And it can't be because people will drop off.
Gavin Tye:I think there's, I was thinking about it yesterday. There's entertainment, which is what that was in connection, but there's also education and inspiration. Right? So entertain education and inspiration. So we're going to do a mix of maybe online events like education masterclasses.
Gavin Tye:Maybe it might be other people who are further ahead of building a business that can come in and inspire people. Then it could be connection or it could be information. Right. Or, and we're starting to plan out a content calendar there. I have a plan now to our next in person event is two months away.
Gavin Tye:But I think we can supplement that with maybe helping them with mistakes founders make, like an online masterclass. Maybe Roma can help them with accounting. Maybe we can get other people in, you know, you to speak about what they should think about when hiring a development team, all sorts of things. Right? So, there's a lot it was really good, but it's opened, it's opened up, yeah, our thinking about this.
Gavin Tye:And yeah, at the end, at the end of the day, six sides was great and, and it captured a lot of the moments and, some PR, I saw people using their rap videos to share them out on socials yesterday. So yeah, it was, it was good. It was great.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Well, it was, I was here feeling pretty lousy, like under the weather. I stuck around till, I think you'd been there for about an hour by the time I wrapped up. And I'd, I went home and it was great. At no point was I worried about like, oh, is this stable or anything like that?
Mitchell Davis:I was seeing no errors. Like I was seeing all the people adding photos to the gallery and everything just seemingly working. Like it felt really stable, but this was like an awesome opportunity for us to kind of test the system one for you as a, as the event organiser. Right. But then two for me as just like more test data to see like, okay, has everything worked the way we expect?
Mitchell Davis:What issues can come up? You sent me a screenshot of someone who yesterday, so a day after the event, like they were trying to get back into the, like the event to see, photos and things like that and for whatever reason it was giving them just a perpetual loading screen and that doesn't make any sense to me how that should be possible but you said once they uninstalled and reinstalled the app they were then able to get back in and so there's just like a bunch of little teething issues and stuff. So having more like runs on the board here just helps everyone. So it's great. Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Cool, man. It's, I sent you a message, a video actually right before you're about to kick off just saying like, I think this is really cool that you're doing this and I hope you get everything out of it that you want because, yeah, it's a big deal to put together a meetup like this. And yeah, I just think it's really cool.
Gavin Tye:Good on you. Thank you, mate. Yeah. Saw that. I saw what's he doing here?
Gavin Tye:Like, and it was yeah. Yeah. It was good. It was, yeah, was really interesting. There's definitely we've touched on something.
Gavin Tye:I don't know what that something is yet. So the next step for us is, I'll get all the email addresses for everyone that registered and then I will start, we'll start building a mailing list. And that first step is I have an hypothesis of that, like connection, inspiration, entertain like entertainment information, like those pillars. That's my hypothesis. Right?
Gavin Tye:I will go I'm gonna go back out and I'll survey these the people who attended and like Roman and I will go in and say, hey, what what do you wanna see? Because there are a lot of meetups around founders, but it's driven by VCs. Right? And so they're trying to actually set them up. I think it's done from a perspective of we want to invest in you.
Gavin Tye:And I think it's I don't know if it's tainted. I definitely think there's a different agenda. Right. I don't want anything from, from them. Right.
Gavin Tye:If they want to work with me, so, so be it. Right. That is what it is. But, so we'll just see, right. I'll just see, we'll just see what happens, but we will survey them, figure out what they want, and then we'll come up with a game plan.
Gavin Tye:I can see what it looks like now, but it can't be a time suck because I've got six sides and I've also got deal buddy and sales market fit. And this can't be a deal suck. This can't be a time suck. Right?
Mitchell Davis:So yeah. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:Raw is positive. Really positive. Yep.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. I think it's interesting you're already thinking about this becoming like content or like edge sorry, educational and coming up with content and things like that. Originally, I didn't know I thought this was just going to be like a recurring sort of meetup, you know, to help build a community there, but you're turning sounds like you're wanting to turn this into more of a a structured thing. You know?
Gavin Tye:I think so. I think that's the right thing to do. Right? Like, it's a but then you think about like who could deliver content. There's a 100 business owners that are subject matter experts in their own field.
Gavin Tye:Right? So they could come in and talk about what they know about like I've spoken to Gavin O'Hare, which was the guy that made the comment about journey at six sides. Like he's a gentic AI. Like he's been building it for a while and he, he knows well more about way more about it than what I do. Right.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. And I'm sure there's a million other business owners out, like who are in the group that can come in and, and just offer value in their own right. Right? So
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. So is that like are you thinking, okay, maybe that's, at the next meetup, it's like, okay, there's like a one hour slot for maybe a presentation or two.
Gavin Tye:No, no, I don't think so. I think everyone has certain interest and, and not everyone has the same interest, right. Or same need. So I think if we do, let's just say twice a month, we do some type of masterclass online. Right.
Gavin Tye:Not everyone's going to come to it. Some people will have that need and interest. Some people won't. So you may get 20 or 30 come to those. And then hopefully we hit a hot button where, you know, eventually we touch everyone's like, whatever needs are.
Gavin Tye:Right? So we do some of them online and then maybe we have people who will come to the, the next meetup. Maybe we have a theme. We know that that bar was not a good spot for it because it was too loud. It wasn't easy to mingle.
Gavin Tye:Someone has got like a AI workshop in in the Fort in Fortitude Valley, which is like King's Cross here in Brisbane. And he said, he's got robots that make coffee, robots that make ice cream. And he invited us to have an event there. Maybe we can go down there and see what he's doing and have a look at like, that looks really interesting. We're going to go and see him from like, and look at it.
Gavin Tye:So there's all these different things. Like there's some really big founders here in Brisbane, the founder of culture Kings who sold his business for 400,000,000. He's in on the Gold Coast. There's do you know Octopus Deploy?
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. I've heard of them.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. He's he's based here. So, he's a billion dollar business. Right. Getting some of these people to come in and talk and give inspiration would be fantastic.
Gavin Tye:Right? And that's just software. I'm sure there's other businesses here. There's sleeper cell businesses that you just don't know about if you did some research and go, who are the biggest business owners or the biggest net worth individuals in Brisbane? I'm sure that they would love to come down and share their journey.
Gavin Tye:Right? Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Cool, mate. That's very exciting. Yeah. So
Gavin Tye:planning it out now like that. We'll see how that goes. We'll we'll we'll Roman and I gotta sit down and plan it out and we'll have a plan and we'll go out to everyone and ask them, how does that plan sound?
Mitchell Davis:Right. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:But, but let's grow the, we'll try and grow the community from, I think the online events and all that stuff will allow us to grow out of Brisbane and then we'll reinforce the in person events. And once our audience gets bigger, then we may hold those meet like those meetups in one in Sydney, in Melbourne and whoever, wherever else we go. Right. So, watch your space. Six sides will be, we'll run this as a case study over twelve months to see, and that will be the backbone of connection.
Mitchell Davis:Right?
Gavin Tye:Yeah. So It's
Mitchell Davis:cool, mate. It's very cool. Okay. Well, in the lead up to, your meetup, we had to roll out a few tweaks to the app so I can just go into those for a second. So we found that the wrapped image collages, there was something weird happening when like you would download when you would generate one of those and then tap on it and go to share.
Mitchell Davis:It was like treating it as though it was a link instead of a photo. So I gotta fix out for that and now it works properly, which is great. Then the other, like, big thing that we added in the lead up to this event was the like single ticket code for all. Yep. So that's something we've talked about over the last few weeks, but we finally got that live and and out the door.
Mitchell Davis:So that was really cool. We did two iOS app releases, like, through the App Store to try and make sure that all the latest changes were kind of bundled in and you didn't need to, you know, click click on tap it update button or anything like that. Unfortunately, though, for Android, we've got this we're gonna have to put a significant amount of work into updating the expo framework that we're running basically Yep. Which is a bit disappointing because the version that we are running is only it's like less than a year old, but and these things move so fast and requires like full retesting on literally I've to like get out, I've got a Samsung phone that I use for this type of testing and I've got to then go through everything every single screen and click every button and make sure everything works properly the way you'd expect. So it's a bit disappointing that until we do that again, I can't roll out any like play store level updates to Android devices.
Mitchell Davis:Devices. So that's something that is like top priority to kick off from early next week so that we can be fully up to date and like unblocked again for, the events coming up in November.
Gavin Tye:Does Cursor does Cursor have functionality there to help you update functionality or the current
Mitchell Davis:It's not so much about like, the update itself might be really easy. Like, it's not typically that hard to do in terms of the time it takes to update your code. Yep. And, yeah, I'm sure Cursor could help with some of that, but it's more about just like it almost feels a bit like you're starting from scratch then in terms of the confidence that you can have in this particular new version of the app because until it's actually out there on people's phones and you start seeing error reports coming in from Android and things like that it's like well hopefully this works really well you know but the only testing we can do is on my phone, I can get Chris who works with me at Atlas to help do some testing on his phone but like that's about it you know so it's a bit of a it's still a bit of a wild wild west. Their expo is getting better at being able to run automated tests so to check does this actually run on all the different devices that you're trying to cover but yeah.
Mitchell Davis:It's just like it's a big headache and a pain in the butt that I feel like we probably shouldn't have to deal with right now. Yeah. So a bit frustrating. It did mean that for any Android users at your meetup, they would have had to download the app from the Play Store and then click on the, like, update button that we have on the home screen. So a bit frustrating there, but it is what it is.
Mitchell Davis:You know? So yeah, so it was good though to get those out and it was great to see that Apple approved both of the releases that we did within like twenty four hours, within twelve hours actually I think it was for both of them. So that's really good to see and like inspire some confidence that when we're ready to roll out the next update, it'll be fairly quick. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:It does show like from the, this founders collective, like we've got to get that. We've got to give them enough time to download the app and have enough time to set it up to so they hit the ground running. Like it is yeah. It is a it's a lesson learned. Right?
Gavin Tye:So yeah. And we plan for that with with volunteering WA.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. And and LaraCon AU. Yeah. So yes. We will have like a good three weeks prior is our cutoff date of, okay, it has to be done, has to be in the app store, play store, etcetera.
Mitchell Davis:So, yeah, there's ample time there. But we were a bit constrained, I was very constrained with some of the other projects that I've been working on unrelated to six sides over the last couple of weeks and so that meant that yeah you wanted to send an email out on like Monday morning but you were waiting on me to finish some functionality and get a new app release out and all this sort of stuff so you've been a bit hamstrung by me and I've been tied up on this other thing that's now coming to a close. So from early next week, I'll be all in a 100% of the time on six sides. And we've got a bunch of features and functionality that we're going to build into the next iteration of the app, which will go for volunteering WA and and LariCon AU. But the very first thing that has to happen is this Android upgrade.
Mitchell Davis:So Yeah. Anyway, we will we'll keep you posted as we make progress on that. Something else that came out of this, we got a we got our very first support email. So you got an email from someone who was going to attend Founders Collective and they basically they weren't able to go in and edit their profile because they they had somehow used the wrong email address or something like that. And it got me thinking like because I you then forwarded over to me and said, Hey Mitch, would you mind checking this out?
Mitchell Davis:And I then went back and forth with this person and we ended up getting it resolved. But it got me thinking like, okay, we probably need to start thinking about like some help desk software so that we can track everything there because I don't want my inbox bogged down with like individual issues that come up. Right. And it also would help us be able to offer support better if both of us can get in there and see it and then in time if we're hiring anybody to do support like everything's in one spot. So I think that's something that if you're cool with it I might look at spearheading over the next couple weeks.
Mitchell Davis:These systems can be fairly cheap to get. Like, I know we're gonna have very low volume of support right now, but I would just rather have everything all in one spot.
Gavin Tye:Is that something to look at within the three weeks of the when the development development window is over, like for volunteering WA? Because we can get quite a out of probably volunteering WA. Right. But I think definitely for January next year, like we start looking at it with our next round of clients. I don't know what
Mitchell Davis:I don't think so. It's like signing up for a SaaS. Right? So it's just like a it'll take ten minutes to get us set up with a support inbox on like particularly the tool that I'm thinking of and that I'm using now on a few projects called help scout. And it it's really very quick to get set up.
Mitchell Davis:So I would love to have a a button in the app for these November events. Yeah. It says, hey. Having trouble? Click here.
Mitchell Davis:That gives them an option to send us an email or something like that. Yeah. Sure.
Gavin Tye:Sure.
Mitchell Davis:So so, yeah, I think that might be the move, but we'll we could talk about that more later. Yeah. Yep. Okay. So something else before I hand over to you for for a few more updates, I went through and decommissioned all of the old event kit infrastructure.
Mitchell Davis:So that had still been running to support the Laricon AU app basically since like September Yep. And so finally I shut down because now we have an app that you can use in demos and has now run a few events under it and all this sort of thing. We don't need to maintain that anymore. So yeah. So it was quite with me feeling sick and feeling pretty down and lousy this week, it was a bit like melancholy going in and, like, shutting down these servers and looking at all the work that had gone into that.
Mitchell Davis:And now, of course, we're we're reusing most of that stuff for our current infrastructure, but still it's like a weird feeling to, like, to terminate a server is like the what it says on the UI in in Amazon. Yeah. Just feels a bit weird, but, you know, it's what we what we gotta do. So we still have all of the data. I took a backup of of everything, and we have all of the photos as well, all of the media that was captured.
Mitchell Davis:So we have all of that. It's just not I haven't like imported it over into our current infrastructure. There's no Laricon AU twenty twenty four inside of the Six Sides app. Not right now. If there happens to be time, at some point in the future, I I'd like to get that in.
Mitchell Davis:I think that would be really powerful to be able to have that, but, it's by no means a priority for us.
Gavin Tye:So Yeah. Fair enough. How's Michael going with the dashboards?
Mitchell Davis:So I reached out to him earlier this week, and he said he was going to start he plans to start making some progress on it this coming weekend. Yep. So but he he, like, copied a bit of the transcript from the episode where he was like, I said, you know, obviously, we have no expectations that anything will get done. It made me laugh. I was like, yeah.
Mitchell Davis:I know. I you're not obligated to do anything. This is you volunteering this. It's totally fine. Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:But, yeah. Anyway, so he'll what I think needs to happen there is I should, I should set up a call with him and it could just be him and I, you'd have to be on it. To basically go through like now he's got all the code base and he can run the web application and all this sort of stuff to just go through and kind of give some high level plans of like, these are the types of things we would like to have added. Yeah. Anyway, I'll we'll keep reporting on that if there's any movement there.
Mitchell Davis:Sure. Thanks again, Michael, if you're if
Gavin Tye:you're Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Thanks, mate. Yeah. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:Yep. Take your time. Do whatever you need to do.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. That's right. Alright. Cool. Well, why don't I hand over to you for some sales, plan development, some updates, all that?
Mitchell Davis:What's going on?
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Well, we've had a couple of me we've had a couple of good meetings last week. Like, we're progressing stuff. I spoke to that not the one we spoke to earlier. Well, I'm waiting for some style guides to come through, which are gonna come through today so we can work on an app, like design from them through our app designer.
Gavin Tye:So we're waiting on that to come through. So, yeah, we had a a really interesting meeting this week, early this week on Tuesday. How do you think that went from your perspective?
Mitchell Davis:It was good. So this is the one that we kind of touched on last episode where this was a person who we reached out to on my LinkedIn, and it was really cool to kind of see the machinery at work here of we do some outreach, we happen to find an interested lead. They then wanted to set up a meeting and we had the meeting went really well. So, it was funny I called you, prior because I I was slammed on Tuesday. It was like back to back meetings in the morning, so I only had about five minutes to call you prior to this call and I get a bit frantic, a bit frazzled, I guess.
Mitchell Davis:Doing these types of calls if I'm the one who's expected to talk, it makes me nervous. And it was funny. I get on that I call you five minutes before. I'm like, okay. Shit.
Mitchell Davis:What do we do? And, what do you what do we need to say? And I said, you know, is there any way I could just kinda pass this over to you? And you're like, okay. Firstly, go listen to Lowrider, which I did.
Mitchell Davis:That's kind of our, like, pop up song before any calls. And and then you're like, just introduce yourself, introduce me, and then pass pass it over to me, you know, basically. And so that's what I did at it. Yeah. It was great.
Mitchell Davis:I then I did that in the first minute or two, and then I reckon I must have said maybe, like, 15 more words after I handed over to you to then when we hung up the call. And it was great. The specifically, like, the messaging that you were using and what you were showing them, it really seemed to resonate, so felt really positive. We gave them some indicative pricing as well based on some of the formulas that we've done, from episode 29 and seemed to resonate really well with them. So that's kind of in flux at the moment.
Mitchell Davis:Right? Maybe if I don't know if you've got any updates Okay. Alright. We'll go ahead.
Gavin Tye:Thank you, sir. So says it's his email this morning. Thank you so much for your time. I wanted to get an update, try to get one before the podcast. Right?
Gavin Tye:Oh, nice. We've gone through your apps, functionality and pricing. Unfortunately, we probably won't be moving forward at this time.
Mitchell Davis:Oh, that's disappointing.
Gavin Tye:But but it's it's I suspected that it was too this happens all the time. Right? So we what we can unpack what happened on the call. It was actually a really good call. It was an excellent call.
Gavin Tye:Right? But then I think both of us got emotionally well, we both were like, oh yeah, this is awesome. We don't need to follow the sales strategy because they already looked like they're going to buy. Right? It's a typical thing that happens where you go, most people will go because we believe in six sides, we think it's amazing.
Gavin Tye:And then we go, oh yeah, we don't need to do this. It looks like they're gonna buy. And so we get lazy on the I got lazy on the other side. And then so we just went backwards and forwards about functionality instead of leading them through their pro our process around helping them justify the ROI of the cost. Right?
Gavin Tye:So it looks like the cost is too high because we went up in a price bracket. Now like I've come back. So they said, it's a fantastic product, just a bit beyond what we can commit to at the moment. Right. So, so I
Mitchell Davis:was Yeah, it does.
Gavin Tye:So I just went back. Yeah. If it's just a question of price, we'll be open to reducing it to establish a long term relationship. So now I'm discounting, which is what we didn't want to get to. But now I've, because they don't necessarily see may not equate ROI to the cost.
Gavin Tye:Now we've got a discount, which is a great lesson to learn. And so I did say, Hey, we run a small event on Wednesday and I showed them the image.
Mitchell Davis:Collages. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:And now I've just said, Hey, look, what does it need to be? And I'm tracking, like I'm trying to track it through as we're going through. I'm refreshing to see if I can see when I've read the email. They haven't
Mitchell Davis:read it yet.
Gavin Tye:Okay. So they may or may not come back to us, but kind of lost control. Like if I'm objective about myself, we lost control of it. I lost, not we, I lost control of the sale. I should have led them into another thing saying, Hey, I want to understand how, and then try to justify the ROI, the cost or the impact of what they're currently doing.
Gavin Tye:But it's a good lesson because that's, I'm going to go back and do it with the other two that we've got these big opportunities going forward at the moment. Right. I was like, don't skip, don't skip.
Mitchell Davis:Right. Even though it's not
Gavin Tye:a high price point, but, anyway, it just is what it is. And great meetings mean nothing until a positive action comes out on the other side. Right?
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Which is a bummer, isn't it? Because it really did feel like, I meant everything I said.
Mitchell Davis:Like, felt a great felt like a great call.
Gavin Tye:But if it
Mitchell Davis:felt like a lock in.
Gavin Tye:But if I'm on their side of the fence and they're like, how do we know that they're gonna be better than what we've already got? Like, we're already paying this. I'm sure they're using. We think we know what they're using. Right?
Gavin Tye:Like that's a, like the price point we ask for is not cheap. Right? So, you know, what are we going to get for that? Like, so even if they're paying something that's marginal, like if we offer a massive amount of efficiency gains and better collection of data to build awareness later, where that approach last that we had on Tuesday or is asking them to join the dots too much where we should be joining the dots. So we have a pathway forward on it.
Gavin Tye:Like, it's a lesson learned for me. I think it's really the difference between honestly a sales amateur and a sales professional is you get you let your emotions get in the way as an amateur. And I let we were just like, fucking great. I can't wait to talk about this on the podcast. Like one shot, one kill.
Gavin Tye:It doesn't happen like that.
Mitchell Davis:Man. And you have totally set me up by asking me at the start of this. I did. How did, how did Tuesday feel?
Gavin Tye:I felt the same. I felt the same.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Oh man.
Gavin Tye:Okay. But I really did it to show people who are listening that although it feels really good, like it can, it doesn't mean anything. Yeah. Like feeling doesn't mean anything on our side. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:Right.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Yeah. So, wow. Okay. All right.
Mitchell Davis:Well, that's, that's all right. We move on. No, I mean, hey, so,
Gavin Tye:so feeling doesn't mean anything, but you've gotta have a plan like, yeah, of course feel good about it, but stick to the structured plan, whatever you have. And we have that structured plan. We were lucky with volunteering WA that could have come back. I was waiting for them to say, oh, I look nah the same way, but we were referred in by Daniel. So, yeah, we not everyone is like that.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Sure.
Gavin Tye:Maybe it could have been if we were a lower price point.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Well, that's right. But I think when we compare our cost to what we believe some of our competitors charge, it feels like, okay, we're already, you know, we're significantly cheaper than some of what our, what our competitors charge. So I don't want to go, I don't want like to scrape bottom of the barrel and a race to zero on price.
Gavin Tye:I 100% agree. We don't, we don't have the track record and we don't have the case studies for it. Right. We don't
Mitchell Davis:have So that could be it. We might have to lower out our pricing until we have a more reputable
Gavin Tye:industry. Yeah. Maybe I just think we need to work really hard at proving the ROI. Right. It doesn't just like you get some of these big ones and they'll say, I just have what they're having.
Gavin Tye:We are nowhere near that stage. Right. You know, we might get a little bit through referrals, but yeah. Anyway, it's a good lesson to learn. I hope that it's not dead yet.
Gavin Tye:If that's the only reason, I it may. We'll see. We'll see. Right?
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. We'll see. Yep. So Okay. Keep you posted as per usual.
Mitchell Davis:Alright. Anything else on sales updates?
Gavin Tye:Or None. I think no. That and I'm just working on a development plan, like sales lead generation plan. I'm gonna start using Clay, look at clay to start getting some more targeted lists. I have an idea of who we're gonna go for now.
Gavin Tye:Right? The types of businesses and why. The why is the right. I think I've got an insight. I've got some decent insight into how we can differentiate ourselves.
Gavin Tye:And yeah, I've got a plan for that. And so that's gonna I'm gonna start looking at that next week. I just had to get this founders collective out of the way yeah, and go from there. And also the founders collective, I'm gonna go back to everyone that attended and saying, hey, if you wanna build your community as a as a strategy for your business, consider six sides, and we can have a conversation about it. Like yeah.
Gavin Tye:Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Sounds good.
Gavin Tye:Yep.
Mitchell Davis:It's a few few irons in the fire there. That's good. Very good. Okay. Cool.
Mitchell Davis:Well, why don't you tell us a little about inductive.au?
Gavin Tye:Yeah. So there's a we're both for transparency for people that are listening. We're both we're heading into uncharted territory with building these building six sites and also myself building deal buddy. I'm not a software. I'm now found myself as a software developer, like soft, sorry, software founder where before I was a consultant, right.
Gavin Tye:Or just a salesperson for a software business. And I think you're in the same position as well as building a SaaS business that could that we have the potential to really grow. So you you've got other businesses that you're involved with, but, you know, where in this particular case, we're looking at trying to grow six sides significantly. I'm also deal buddy, we're trying to figure out how to maybe work together on that as well. So there's a lot of stuff I know that I don't know.
Gavin Tye:Right. And inductive is a program put on by the Queensland government, QIC, and about helping businesses get investment ready. Right. There's two streams, one of iterating, getting product validation. The other one is getting investment ready.
Gavin Tye:Now, I don't know if that's what I want to do with deal buddy. And we also don't know collectively if we want to do that with six sides.
Mitchell Davis:Right. I
Gavin Tye:do know that it's, we are both juggling. It's a juggling act on our living expenses and trying to add into our software platforms. And it's a balancing act because we've got to live. Right. And so that is a challenge that I can see that I don't know how to get out of right now.
Gavin Tye:Right? So inductive is a, is a, I wouldn't call it an accelerator, but it's definitely like an accelerator. And Peter was saying, which is the, the guy running it, he was saying there's two streams. One is product validation or one's investment ready. I said, I don't necessarily have either of those problems.
Gavin Tye:I said, what I don't understand is how to transition from being a subcontractor or the person doing the business to building a business. And that's what I think we both need help with. Right? So, that's so inductive as an in person program. And then he, he said, look, you both can come into it.
Gavin Tye:Like both businesses can come into it. And I think you and I had a conversation about deal buddy about what's the future. I want to tie our success together, Mitch. Right. Cause I don't want you to feel like that I'm paying attention to deal buddy and not six sides and vice versa.
Gavin Tye:Right. And I want to both of us to be tied to the success. Right. I think you're great team. Right.
Gavin Tye:So, but how the fuck do we do that? I have no idea. I have no idea. Right?
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. We we had an honest conversation about I I and I told you, like, you know, I was watching those videos that you were putting together on YouTube a little while ago, and I could hear in your voice and what you were saying of just like, okay. You need help on the technical side of things. That's what you're hoping for. I know through conversations that we've had that you want us to work together on deal buddy.
Mitchell Davis:And I want to, I really do, but I'm just so slammed with this. Just I'm spread way too thin at the moment, which is why I haven't come back to you and said, okay, mate, like, let's do this. Know?
Gavin Tye:Yeah. You are not in a position to do that. I'm not. I think, to be honest, I think we probably wherever we are, whatever happens, it needs to be a restructure, like, of what happens. Right?
Gavin Tye:And so I did ask Peter and I asked him, I said, look, we found ourselves in this position. I said, it's call it ideal or not ideal. Have two great opportunities. Well, you have your side businesses, but I'm just talking about from my perspective, but I've two great opportunities here. I said, I'm not going to
Mitchell Davis:hang up one. Like, I don't want to
Gavin Tye:hang up one. He goes, why would you got two rods in the water? He said, the reality is, is if one took off and the other one was going, you'd put someone in the business to run the one that's going okay. You concentrate on the one that's going really well. He said, that's essentially what you do at the end of the day.
Gavin Tye:I was like, yeah, right. That makes sense. But I'm like, I want to, I want to do this together because even if we do it and we go, that's not the right thing. At least we're on the same page around how the, like trying to align both businesses. So yeah, it's, you looked at those and Peter, I've known him for a long time.
Gavin Tye:He's actually kind of his design thinking and how he talks about product and iterating and all that kind of stuff is kind of got me thinking about how to iterate sales in that same frameworks. His first principle frameworks are really the basis of how I started thinking about breaking the sale down into the buyer's journey and just small iterations. Right. It's very aligned. Right?
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. I can see there's seems like there's some influence there from Peter on, like, my dealings with you. Yep. Especially as I was, like, entering your your sales course. What what did you call that?
Gavin Tye:The founders program.
Mitchell Davis:The Yeah. Your founders program. Yeah. That's right. So and this was years ago now.
Mitchell Davis:This is kind of how we met kind of. But, yeah, I did watching this kind of introductory video that you said to me on how it works, it did have me thinking like okay I could see this being valuable for us. The fact that it is largely geared towards people that want to raise investment has me a little feeling like maybe there's a little misalignment But you then when you and I spoke about it prior to this recording you were like, well it's also about identifying for people people identifying that they are not interested in investment and right now neither of us have any experience with any like getting VC or anything like that right? So we don't really know one way or the other right? So that's quite interesting.
Mitchell Davis:What it did remind me of though was your founder's program and how I don't know if I want to be on all of the calls. And Peter because I find it a bit draining to be honest, that type of thing. I can see that being your thing. You've run these courses before, you've been in lots of them before. This is your type of thing.
Mitchell Davis:For me I find it quite draining. I prefer to kind of live in a bit of a siloed off world rightly or wrongly, know, it is what it is. I think particularly the makeup of this course it sounds like okay there's two kind of hour to an hour and a half opening and closing like on a sessions on a weekly basis. And it sounds like maybe only one person from the business needs to go to those. But then for there's also a separate like one hour deep dive Peter calls it where that's just us and him by the sound of it.
Mitchell Davis:Okay. And that's something that I could see myself going to. Yeah. So if this is something you wanna do, like I'm happy to do that and commit that yep, I can do those deep dives. How does that sit with you?
Mitchell Davis:Because we haven't talked about this at all. This is all.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Look, I think I think there's part of it where like, it's working on it and in it, right? We're both working in it. I don't think we both need to work on it all the time. It's just that like when we go, Hey, look, this is coming up or, Hey, this is a good session.
Gavin Tye:Go back and watch it. Then we can talk. Right? Yeah. Like, I think that's okay.
Gavin Tye:Right? Yep. We occupy two different spaces in the business in my opinion. Right? One is you're in an you're also building for the future right of the platform, but you're in the now in the technical context.
Gavin Tye:I'm thinking about now and down the track. So we're we both don't need to be down the track and thinking about business because I can't get in and think about the technical stuff. That's just a waste. That puts too much burden on you. Right?
Gavin Tye:But I also think we need to be on the same page and you at least need to understand where we're thinking of going or have influence and go, yeah, that makes sense or not. Right? So something just come into my head before about what you were saying. Well, we both don't know if we can both get away without raising money. I think we would do that.
Gavin Tye:Right. But I also think if objectively, I don't know why I think that I just think it's not because I want to hold onto everything. It's not for any other reason. I don't know what the reason is there or sorry. I do know the reason I see founders that have taken money too soon and then they're just fucked.
Gavin Tye:Right? They can't do their own hours. They're reporting, they're writing all this shit. They lose control. They are not their boss anymore.
Gavin Tye:They are reporting to people. Right? And I don't want to do that. Right. I don't necessarily want to do that, but I will do it if I think there's value in it.
Gavin Tye:If I think that it's the right thing. But I have seen founders get into a cycle and they're always like, have to raise money, raise money. They're not making sales. But I don't think that that will be us because I'm highly sales driven. I think that at the very we're a sales business at the end of the day, we have to be.
Gavin Tye:So I do think about the comment that you said before about being spread thin. We are both spread thin across our business. We do not have a lot of excess cash. So the growth of the business is going to be slow. Right?
Gavin Tye:Of both of six sites and deal deal buddy. Right? So maybe taking capital or taking money. I don't know the answer to this. I'm just spitballing.
Gavin Tye:Maybe it does lighten the load. Like it gives us something to go, okay, well we know what our numbers are on a monthly basis that we need to hit, which is we're both the same. Right. It just gives us that,
Mitchell Davis:that save that. Yeah. It's a safety net
Gavin Tye:comfort to know that we've got that for at least the next twelve months and we can actually, anything else we can add other people into the business to grow it. And then we're actually just concentrating on two things at once or whatever. We are, hopefully we'll get to December and get this grant from the government with six sides and we won't need to do that. Right. But yeah, I just, I don't know.
Gavin Tye:I don't know the answer to it. Right? I don't know. You could go either way and I don't think either way is wrong. Right?
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. That's right. I I I'm not thrilled by the idea of having to report to people, to investors.
Gavin Tye:You don't like having a boss, Mitch. You don't like anyone telling you No.
Mitchell Davis:It's yeah. It's true. Like, that is true. And, yeah, it that doesn't interest me all that much. Lowering out equity as well certainly doesn't interest me all that much.
Mitchell Davis:So it would have to be pretty compelling for us to take like, would have to be really worth it for us to take investment. And look, maybe it is worth it if it means okay I can lighten the load on myself and all these other bloody things that I'm working on and just focus for a little while but that is a huge life change as well. So it's not even like if someone came to us and often does offered us a couple million right now, like, yes, that sounds amazing. You know? Who knows if we could even get that right now.
Mitchell Davis:Right?
Gavin Tye:Have yet. No. I don't think so.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm There's a decision, though, to be made that's more than just about money. It's like, is this is this the right move for I don't know.
Mitchell Davis:It's kinda hard to without laying all the cards on the table here because I I'm deliberately holding some things back. I don't think everybody needs to hear every little detail. But yeah, there's it's more than just like, okay, great. If someone comes along and offers us a salary for the next year, oh, we're gonna take it. No.
Mitchell Davis:It's not like that. It's there's a lot more that goes into that decision. Right?
Gavin Tye:Like, yeah. A 100%. One of the things that I like, I don't I I'm really conscious of is if we go down the path like ten years and we look back and we go, we had we fucked it. We we took a wrong turn. We just we it was there.
Gavin Tye:We just did not do it. Our stubbornness or our our preconceptions, preconceived conceptions just got in the way of us turning it into a success. Or it's the other way we just followed everyone else and fucked up. Or I don't know the answer to that. Like, just, we need more information.
Gavin Tye:Right? I've got no harm in giving up equity. We grow, like, if you were going to take, it has to be, if you're going to take equity, give up 20%, 30%, you would want to be growing. You'd have to, what's the, what's the multiplier there that makes that worthwhile growing at three X or four X and what we would normally do, then that makes it worthwhile. That there has to we sit down on that multiplier because there is a multiplier there.
Gavin Tye:Like if you grow at two X and give up 50%, I don't that's the same. Right? So, but I I think we have a responsibility to ourselves and our future selves to actually explore all this stuff and and and really sit down. Right? Like
Mitchell Davis:I agree. So I I am interested in it. I just know I don't think I want to be in every, like, four hours of this per week. So if that if you really want me to to also come to the other two, the opening and close sessions, I will, But it would be my preference to not. Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:That's what I'm trying
Gavin Tye:to say. Well, we'll see. We'll just see what what comes out of it. Like if they say, look, I really think both founders should be there and blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, and then we'll say, okay, but we are running a bloody business.
Gavin Tye:We don't have you're right. So, I think we just play it by year and do the right thing that works for us. And then if it doesn't work, then we just don't have to stay in the whole thing.
Mitchell Davis:Just end. Yeah. That's that's right. This isn't there's no cost to this. Right?
Mitchell Davis:Cause it's funded by the government and really cool structure as well that Peter's got where it's just continuously I forget the exact words, but like people come in, they come out all the time, there's no like cohort that starts on this date or whatever. It sounds like very free flowing, which is like really appealing actually. Yeah. Yeah. So really cool.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. And I think there's also benefit in meeting a different, like a network or another community of doing this as well. Right? Like you might meet whoever, whatever. Yep.
Gavin Tye:That's where I think, I think this is when I personally need to educate myself on what our possibilities are and I have no clue. Right. I've deliberately stayed away from it, but they also think that's just my, I do have an ability like you, a proclivity to put my head in the sand and go, nah, I'm not paying attention to it. I did it with, what'd I do it with Shrek and game of Thrones. I decided not I to watch just didn't want to watch.
Gavin Tye:And I ended up watching them all that. These are the best ever. And, I just don't want that to
Mitchell Davis:I need to be. I agree.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. We have a fiduciary responsibility to be properly informed, think.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Right.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Do you know what that means? Fiduciary?
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. It's like a money, it means money or something.
Gavin Tye:It's just a responsibility, like in your role. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We do.
Gavin Tye:We have a fiduciary responsibility to our families.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Alright. Well, as we get into a close, so next week we have a a meeting with some UI, UX designers Yep.
Mitchell Davis:That you have known from previous work, and we're we're hoping to get some help from them to kind of polish the mobile app for six sides. Yeah. Was it that bug? Because
Gavin Tye:I gave them a discount into Deal Buddy. And when the proviso with that other money can go into this, so and, yeah. So Amazing. Yeah. We've got a couple grand up our sleeve to get them to help us, and it doesn't have to be fantastic.
Gavin Tye:Just an iteration. So Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Yeah. And I, like, I embrace it with open arms. You were saying to me before we started the recording that you now having used the app at an event that you were running and seeing, like, what we could do with the theme designer that we've got, that you were like, this is pretty good. And I agree.
Mitchell Davis:It's pretty good. I know it can be a lot better with someone or, you know, a team of people like this that knows how to make really nice looking designs. Right? So I'm like I embrace it with open arms. There's no hesitation on my side of, oh, this is this is my design, and I I made it look like this.
Mitchell Davis:So there's I'm gonna be sad when it doesn't. Bring it on. I can't wait for our shit to look good. I think
Gavin Tye:it to be honest, I think it looks really good. Like, the way that Founders Collective set looks really vintage. Right? And then the other one I set up the other day looks quite fresh. Like it just there are some things yeah.
Mitchell Davis:I think you're underestimating. Yeah. But like it I I don't want to be closed to better people, you know? If we could get some help and we can through what you've done, amazing. So let's let's do it.
Mitchell Davis:So I'm really excited for that. I don't quite know what to expect in terms of, like, how long it will take them to look at anything and and what we can
Gavin Tye:I don't even know how they do it, to be honest?
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Like, what to what level of fidelity are they gonna come back with, okay. Great. This is I've done a mock up of this in Photoshop now over to you to make it look like this. Or is it just gonna be like wireframes of like, okay.
Gavin Tye:How does it work? Yeah. How does it work with a UX designer? They they
Mitchell Davis:A lot of the time, as far as I know, it's wireframes because the UX specifically is for user experience.
Gavin Tye:Yep.
Mitchell Davis:And that is about, like, what's the flow of a user in our case downloading the app, they go through the registration process, and then now they wanna get access to, you know, Founders Collective. So what what journey do they have to go on through? Yeah. They click this button and it does this, and then now we show them this welcome message and then we do a checklist and blah blah blah. Right?
Mitchell Davis:It it's more thinking about it at that level and that's the user experience.
Gavin Tye:Okay.
Mitchell Davis:But UI is like the actual design of how does it look and how should this button be placed and should it have shadows and all that sort of stuff. Right? Yep. So I think these guys do both by the sounds of it, which is great. But yeah, I really don't have any idea what to expect.
Mitchell Davis:I haven't I don't think I've actually worked with any designers on any of the projects that we've done under Atlas because it's always been okay, we will just do a simpler design, you know, with the skill set that we have and that has typically been enough. Know? I haven't had any customers come back and be like, fuck, this design really sucks. But I know that there are designers out there that are a million miles ahead of what we could do if only you pay them for it or you you barter it in this case. Right?
Mitchell Davis:So Yep. Yeah. So I'm really excited. Bring it on today.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Cool. Awesome. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to see how that goes on Monday next week. And, mate, we've had our best month ever on, the podcast.
Gavin Tye:So we beat surpassed last month, which is our best month. We're going up month on month. So thank you for everyone who's listening and not replying or writing in, or giving us giving us a rating on on iTunes. Yep. So we'll go up again.
Gavin Tye:It ends up being a five week, month this month. So we'll end up
Mitchell Davis:It's true. Yeah. We should we should smash last month with another episode when this one comes out.
Gavin Tye:So Yep.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. It's cool. It's really cool to have this and, like, to think where it started off at, you know, way back when in episode one and think where we are now. And yeah, it's cool. It's really cool.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Really enjoying it. Anyway, do you have any plans coming up for next week?
Gavin Tye:Next week, I wanna start using getting clay sorted, and we'll look at some type of we'll get back into the lead generation on meet our fruit or LinkedIn doing some of that stuff. The video doesn't really seem to have hit
Mitchell Davis:really well.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. That's okay. Yeah. That's okay. So but that's okay.
Gavin Tye:We're not firing all of those people. So we can do a webinar, like thinking about your event community or something like that around them. So that's fine. We've got other we've got other arrows to fire at them. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:But then I also wanna do a bit of a targeted start investigating clay. I hear good things about it, to, to soften the costs a bit. I will split them across deal buddy and, six sides as well. Cause we're starting to get low on funds now. If not, if not, we've lost them.
Gavin Tye:If not, we've, we've completely exhausted our funds.
Mitchell Davis:It's getting low. Yeah. It's getting low.
Gavin Tye:But I really want to secure, I've got an update next week with a big client. So, and they connected with me on LinkedIn, which is a part, which is a somewhat positive sign. Don't, if you're doing business development or doing a sales opportunity with someone and they're not going to progress and they don't want to, they don't want to go for it. They won't connect with you on LinkedIn because that'll give you false hope. Right?
Gavin Tye:People you don't wanna connect with someone. Like, if someone doesn't want you like, imagine going out on the first date and then you connect with someone on Facebook or Instagram, and then you go out on one day. It's just the same thing.
Mitchell Davis:Right? So True. But is there any lessons that you could take from how this conversation that we had on Tuesday, how that hasn't played out? Is there anything are we getting too emotional here?
Gavin Tye:Think about this was lust. One call really interested in that mindset. I call it lust and love. Like there's a difference. It's really high interest and it goes away really quick, really fast.
Gavin Tye:Right. With this other opportunity, we've been speaking to them. I've been speaking to them for months, right?
Mitchell Davis:Six months now.
Gavin Tye:But I've given them a report like for them to, you know, I went to their event. I made an assessment. I've taken the time and I've given them a report and I've given them to distribute. Like I've done a lot of that backstuff and prove the ROI potentially of what could be achieved. I didn't do that on Tuesday.
Gavin Tye:I should have, I should have done it. So I actually produced a really, I'll show you this report after the webinar, Mitch, with deal buddy. I'm starting to work with this client next week, my biggest one ever. I did a business process matrix and wrote a business case report around what they could expect from us. And he goes, mate, this is amazing.
Gavin Tye:Like, is phenomenal. It's just, see it and you're like, I showed Mel and she was like, oh my God, like this is, it's just, I got lazy. I got emotional and I didn't do it.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah, sure. Yeah. No, that's all right. It's good. This is like, this is how we'll learn.
Mitchell Davis:Right? So now I'm sure we won't make that mistake or if we do, it won't be again anytime soon.
Gavin Tye:Probably will.
Mitchell Davis:Well, actually not any chance.
Gavin Tye:Well, even if we do it and it doesn't come ahead, it's not a perfect science. Right? No. You just gotta increase your chance.
Mitchell Davis:So yep. Alright. That's what we'll do. So why don't we call it there? Mate, where can people find you online?
Gavin Tye:Mate, you can find me online at, founderscollective.com.au now. Can I? Oh, No. Gavin Ty at LinkedIn is the main one. And That's
Mitchell Davis:the main one. Yep. Yep. Perfect. Well, for me, it'll be Mitch Dev, on LinkedIn, and I'm kinda I'm not really doing any social media anywhere else.
Mitchell Davis:Like, I don't know. I'm just kinda stopped caring about doing anything. So
Gavin Tye:Mate, are you sick? I am
Mitchell Davis:sick. But just in general, I'm just like, oh,
Gavin Tye:I don't know. It's hard.
Mitchell Davis:Oh, don't come on, mate. Me? It's no it's like it's just, who gives a shit about Twitter and stuff anymore? I don't know. It's just how I'm feeling lately.
Mitchell Davis:So Yeah. Anyway, we'll see. Sorry to drop it off at the end of the episode. Alright. Well, I hope you enjoyed this one.
Mitchell Davis:Give us a rating and a review and not an email, and, we'll catch you all on the
Gavin Tye:next one. Getting those emails from people's really affected.
Mitchell Davis:It really rocked Throwing your joy It made me sick. That's what it did. That's that's what contributed to this.
Gavin Tye:Oh, mate. You sound like my mom guilt me into doing something. Anyway. Alright.
Mitchell Davis:We'll catch you all next week. See you.