Hey. I'm Mitchell Davis, a Laravel developer.
Gavin Tye:Good day. I'm Gavin Tye, founder, cofounder, sales and marketing from Six Eyes. Welcome. You
Mitchell Davis:really gotta work on that. Oh, we didn't do our thirty second pitch. I work on That's okay. Next time.
Gavin Tye:We'll try. Let's do it. We'll do it later. What are we doing the podcast for, mate? This is awful.
Gavin Tye:Like, delivery. No. Why?
Mitchell Davis:It's pandemonium.
Gavin Tye:It's it's fine. When you put the background music in, it sounds sweet, but this is all that's part of our charm. I do have to say, before the show started, you had an alcoholic drink just to get you through. Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:9AM. 09:08AM on a Monday, and I'm I'm chugging I'm chugging if you must know. Alright. Look.
Gavin Tye:Technically, it's a yes. Right?
Mitchell Davis:Technically, it's dichlorobenzyl alcohol. Alright? Five hundred and eighty nanograms per spray, and I had two of them. So, you know, for those that aren't on YouTube, this is a Strepsils throat spray thing because I've been a little under the weather, and Gavin caught me, yeah, chugging something.
Gavin Tye:Potato potato, mate. Still alcohol. I think we will need to set this up, set up a intervention. I'll get the call on the call, and we'll have a,
Mitchell Davis:yeah, we'll see now. Need to next time. Anyway, look, after this enormously chaotic intro, we are building Six Sides, and it's an event platform to help you grow your community. It's a mobile app. It's a website.
Mitchell Davis:What is in it at this point?
Gavin Tye:Doesn't cook your dinner.
Mitchell Davis:Well, maybe next week. Yeah. I'm working on it. Trust me. Mate, how are you going?
Gavin Tye:Good. Good. We've had a couple of well, we've had two big milestones we hit this week. One for me, one for you. Oh, yeah.
Gavin Tye:Anyone who's been following along, we submitted the grant submission last week. It was really good. I actually put
Mitchell Davis:it in the hopeful 100 k of funding.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Mitchell Davis:It's a big deal if we get this.
Gavin Tye:I put in a I asked chat GPT to assess it, and it gave it a nine out of 10 quality score, which is pretty good. Right?
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Okay.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. So we said it was very good. I said a lot more than that. Actually, it was strong, compelling application that ticks nearly all the boxes for a successful Ignite Ideas fund submission. So, you know, we've put our best foot forward.
Gavin Tye:I think we have. And, you know, if if we're lucky enough, fantastic. If not, we'll survive.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Will survive. Yep. That's right. We'll see.
Mitchell Davis:So, apparently, we weren't here until you're saying December?
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Something like that. Well, they said they're gonna release it in December. There was a timeline somewhere I need to have a look at, but it it definitely won't be for a couple of months.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Cool.
Gavin Tye:They are not fast. Right? It's not gonna it's not a grant to help you survive. Right?
Mitchell Davis:No. It's it's not a natural disaster. Don't wanna fund those businesses that are right on the brink either. No. No.
Mitchell Davis:So no. So that's right. But, yeah, we'll we'll keep you posted. So that was huge. You did really well, and And you made excited.
Gavin Tye:What's you? What's your big big news?
Mitchell Davis:Big news is we have put the app up for review. So the final production build of the app is now it's not final. There will be a million more releases of this over the next few years, but the version that we are shipping to Laravel Live Denmark has now gone up for review in the App Store. So I will be submitting the Android version to the Play Store today, but we've officially got the iOS version up in the hands of the reviewers. So hopefully that will go through pretty soon And then anyone that's out there that's going to attend Laravel Live Denmark, if you happen to be listening to this as well, you'll be able to get in and and download the app and get your profile set up and get yourself all ready.
Gavin Tye:Congratulations, mate. Well done. That I know that was stressful. Yeah. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:And you, yeah, you got it done, which was amazing, an amazing feat. So I think this I don't know if this will come through. This deserves a bit of the Do go to? Do. Do.
Gavin Tye:Excellent. Yep. We might get flagged for copyright there because we have such a massive listener base.
Mitchell Davis:That's worth it, though.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. It is.
Mitchell Davis:Funny you bring that up. We'll get back to the affidavit, but literally have you seen the movie Speed with Keanu and Of course.
Gavin Tye:Who hasn't? Yeah. It's
Mitchell Davis:a it's a classic. Right? Yep. And so I was Nicole and I were, like, looking for movies to watch last night while we're having dinner. And then I had in the back of my head, I was like, oh, we should watch speed.
Mitchell Davis:We found it on Disney, I think it is. Okay. We watched it. It's a classic. I it's what a great movie.
Mitchell Davis:And there's like, when the bus makes the jump over the gap and somehow magically the bus gets, like, some vertical airtime. It's ridiculous. That movie is so stupid, but great movie. At the end of that, it popped up with, like, related movies or whatever. And can you guess the first movie that came up?
Gavin Tye:Gone in sixty seconds.
Mitchell Davis:Gone in sixty seconds. And I was like, Nicole, this is probably one of my favorite movies ever. It just holds, like, a real spot in my heart. So I was like, we're watching this tonight.
Gavin Tye:And she hasn't seen it. She hasn't seen Gone in
Mitchell Davis:sixty seconds. Seen it? No. Yeah. I know.
Mitchell Davis:So, anyway, we're gonna correct that tonight. Wow.
Gavin Tye:So Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Right. Report back. Just funny timing. But thank you. I I look.
Mitchell Davis:I appreciate it, and I will relive that great movie experience tonight when I watch Yeah. Watch the the full thing. So
Gavin Tye:Yep. You're proud, mate, because I know you've been stressed.
Mitchell Davis:Yes.
Gavin Tye:You know, this is hard. What I keep going back to when we almost promised an app for another event month a couple months ago, I'm glad that didn't come off because I don't know what would have happened there.
Mitchell Davis:Oh, it would have been awful. So, yes, I'm I'm really pleased with where we've got the app to, it delivers on everything that Denmark is expecting. There were some things that were kind of in like a nice to have bucket, which I wasn't able to get in in time, and and that's okay. We've met all of our commitments to to Denmark, and I know that we'll continue to evolve it. Like, I'm I'm already thinking about, okay, can we release further updates between now and then?
Mitchell Davis:Yep. Just to, like, you know, are there any other features or things that we can add to just kind of get in? Because not only just for Denmark, but it also gives us, like, really good data of like actually testing our hypotheses and does this feature resonate and oh, do people like this and whatever, know? So this is like one of this is our very first opportunity to test with real attendees. So yeah, it's exciting, I'm looking forward to working on some of that stuff over the next few weeks in between now and Denmark, but I can now take the foot off the gas and I found it quite difficult actually over the weekend to get in and just, like, finish out any of these last parts that needed to be done because I'm really, like, I'm feeling super burnt out.
Mitchell Davis:This was a huge slog to get this done. Yeah. So really looking forward to just chilling out a little, but, you know, still working on this in the background.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Yep. No. It's good. How and do you feel like a sense of relief?
Gavin Tye:Like, what's the
Mitchell Davis:Absolutely. Yeah. I feel really excited. I can't wait for these attendees to get in and use the app. I can't wait to see all the photos that get taken and, like, I'm just largely, I'm really looking forward to it getting used Yep.
Mitchell Davis:Which is always like with software that I've built in the past, you know, there's sometimes like you might for example, I built a website called Laramates, laramates.com, and it's like a Laravel developer directory. And I was so worried the whole time I was building it like is anybody actually gonna use this thing? Does anybody care? And turns out like people did care, I got a couple 100 signups on it which was awesome but there's always that, is this actually gonna be worth doing?
Gavin Tye:Mhmm.
Mitchell Davis:And knowing that, okay. This is I think Denmark has between two and three hundred people going to their conference. Hopefully, we'll get at least half of them. You know, if if LaraCon AU is anything you go by, we got I think we got 75% of all attendees downloaded the app Yep. And logged in.
Mitchell Davis:So, hopefully, we'll get some similar numbers. Like, it feels great to know, okay, just by virtue of the software, these people are going to use this. Yep. That feels really good. You know?
Gavin Tye:It's what it's easy like, in my experience, it's easy to to implement software. The hardest thing is to change management. Right? Mhmm. It's getting people to, you know, getting them to, like, building it.
Gavin Tye:Obviously, it's been difficult to do. Sure. But the change management of forcing or or or directing people to that, like, is where we'll have to support Laravel, the team there to actually help them do that. Yeah. Because otherwise, people just default back to their natural way.
Gavin Tye:Right? If they've been to that event for the last few years, they've they would have survived without a nap. They're like, what do we need? I already know everything. So it's about encouraging getting the team to encourage them and and setting up situations during the event so they push them into that app or encourage them into the app to take photos and that kind of stuff.
Gavin Tye:So, yeah, like, yeah, I can it's been it's a massive milestone. It's a massive milestone, and congratulations.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Thank you. It's I'm just glad that this part is done, and then now move on to the next bit. You know? So
Gavin Tye:Yep. Yep.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Anyway Alright.
Gavin Tye:That's good. Mate, it's your turn to surprise me this week. You know, last week when you're reading through the submission, you were saying that, oh, 75% to 25% in founder salary.
Mitchell Davis:Salaries. Yeah. I think it was $20.80, actually. 20.
Gavin Tye:Yep. $80.20 $80.20 is probably what most people are are familiar with.
Mitchell Davis:Well, 20 for me. 80 for you.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Fair enough. But your turn surprised me during the week. I was looking through my email on on the weekend actually and had a look. I was like, oh, $6,000 invoice.
Gavin Tye:What the fuck is that? And then I realized, obviously, your your side biz your other business is invoicing us for one of your employees. But I was surprised. I was like, holy shit. That goes 60 percent of what everything that you made.
Gavin Tye:Right? Yep. Yep.
Mitchell Davis:That's right. And so, yeah, I it's I wish that we didn't have to do that and that I was able to just get all of the work done myself and then, you know, there's no cost there, but, unfortunately, it just wasn't able to happen. And, yeah, it did feel a bit, like, funny, you know, of just like, okay. Wow. This is a pretty significant invoice at our scale, you know, for for this business.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. It felt a bit shitty, to be honest with you, invoicing that amount and now instantly, like, the bank accounts chopped in half, but it is what it is. We needed that help, and it's something that you and I had agreed on that, okay, we're just gonna engage and and get some help and it costs what it costs. And, yeah, ultimately, like, that there's no margin or anything like that on on those costs there. That's just raw what it's costing me as the employer.
Mitchell Davis:So, yeah, I've done everything I can there to try and keep that down as low as possible, but, yeah, it is a bit it's like, whoo. It's a lot, but, hopefully, that should be the last time that we need to hire Chris, you know, which is a bit sad to say because I'd I'd love having him work on the code base, but I just think, okay. It might not be sustainable until we pick up some more revenue. You know? So, anyway, like, the only reason we we needed Chris' help was to help us with this deadline.
Mitchell Davis:Right? So now from here, like, the next deadline, quote, unquote, is in November. So there's, like, a world of time for any other future things that we might have committed to or or whatever. So, yeah, I will be taking my foot off the gas, but by no means am I, like, stepping away and work is done on this thing. There's a heap more to do.
Mitchell Davis:Yep. And we've now got even more time to do it. You know?
Gavin Tye:I don't see that as our money anyway, to be honest, in the bank. I think that's just the cost of we just read it. We need it. We'll we will and and we'll redeploy that plus more when we need to. Right?
Mitchell Davis:So Yeah.
Gavin Tye:I don't see us drawing a wage or taking any money from here for a long time. So Yeah. Yep. That that kinda at the moment for me, it's kinda feeling the pinch a little bit because, I've transitioning away well, I've I've built another platform, for my other business, Deal Buddy. Right?
Gavin Tye:So Yep. There's a transition into software, which is completely different to service providing. Right? Because the margin is or not the margin. The rate is so much more when you're billing hours than it is for software.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. And so even for us in in our family, like, I've got monthly expenses that we need like, I everything I do is, first and foremost, just so we can survive and then everything else on top of that. And I'm like, oh, we're we're having a look in our family and, going, how do I switch over? So a lot of my time at the moment is for Deal Buddy, which is trying to get people up and running onto that as quick as I can. But Yeah.
Gavin Tye:Because it's only an m v not an MVP. It's past that now, but, I don't wanna take on it's not ready to scale yet because if anything goes wrong, I've gotta be able to, yeah, help people. Yeah. Yeah, currently, we're feeling the pinch, like, trying to fund our lives but build two businesses. It's a it's a challenge.
Gavin Tye:Right? So we've got It
Mitchell Davis:is tricky.
Gavin Tye:I think you had this same problem not three months ago. Remember when you said you you're you're having a challenge and I was okay? And I was like, it's gonna inverse here. Don't worry about it. And it's, yeah, it's starting to inverse with us.
Mitchell Davis:It's ebbs and flows for sure. Like, it would honestly, it would be great if six sides, if we were able to get some paint some more paying customers in Yep. You know, in the next few months, and then we are able to draw down even just a little bit from it. I know we, like, we the plan is to reinvest back most of the revenue that we make. Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:But we are spending a significant amount of time on this business. Like, it Yep. It would be good. It would be handy and and helpful to be generating some money from all of this effort. Right?
Gavin Tye:Sure. That's a That's there's a couple of things that come into my mind right then is I think that is absolutely something we have not discussed about, hey. Let's aim for a because we haven't figured out our pricing. I think we're getting close to it now, like, honestly. I think we're getting, close to it.
Gavin Tye:We wanna help businesses over the longer term, not just an event. So it's not a per event pricing. It's more over the a yearly subscription. Yep. I'm investigating helping businesses.
Gavin Tye:So if anyone's listening to this and they are a business and they go out and they kinda do marketing events. Like, they might be doing a barbecue with clients or they're, might be going to an event and they do events and six sides isn't there. If they're interested in working with us on a pilot, like a pilot or a case study, I've got one other client in mind, please reach out to us at Journey. I would love to work with you, and it won't cost you anything. But I think there's a way there's a there's a probably another revenue stream where we could help businesses build awareness for their business.
Gavin Tye:Right? Yeah. And and and and help them achieve, and it would dovetail into events eventually. But if that is someone that who's listening and they do wanna talk about that, reach out, and I'm happy to have a conversation, see if we can help you and run you as a live case study and keep you, you know, if you wanna be part of the podcast, keep you updated. Side note, that that was a digression.
Gavin Tye:But maybe we sit down and go, okay. Well, what would what does that look like if we get to 10 k a month or something like that? Like, do we wanna take out couple of thousand bucks a month just to relieve Yeah. Relieve our
Mitchell Davis:because, I mean, certainly, that would help, you know, as far as mortgages and things. Yeah. Absolutely.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Every every every $100 at the moment helps, right, per month. Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:So we maybe we should think about are you still listening to the build your sass podcast?
Gavin Tye:I I am, but I haven't listened to it. I forgot. They I fell out of my habit. I forgot I have habits of what I listen to, and I forgot that I started listening to. So, yes, I'll go back to listen to them.
Gavin Tye:Yep.
Mitchell Davis:It it's to be clear, it's fine if you haven't. But No. No. No. You do continue, there's a part where they start talking about I'll have to do a little research to get all the right names and stuff, but basically, like, divvying up no matter how much revenue you're making at the moment, assigning, like, certain percentages.
Mitchell Davis:Okay. We can have 25% go towards our, like, ongoing infrastructure expenses of, you know, let's say we're making a $100 a month or something like that. Well, we've got $25 then that we can spend on servers and stuff. Sure. Then we've got 50% that goes towards salaries, and then, you know, 20% or whatever, it goes towards taxes and da da da.
Mitchell Davis:Right? So kind of that's something that they used early on in the transistor.fm journey, and they they documented that on the build your SaaS podcast. And maybe that would be an interesting exercise for us to sit down and go through. We won't do it today because clearly we're not prepared yet, but maybe we can talk about that next week because it would be really interesting to see how we both feel about this. I am serious about wanting to reinvest back into this business.
Mitchell Davis:Yep. So that we can try and grow it as quickly as we can. Yep. But at the same time, I I also wanna make some money.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Yeah. Well, we have to support ourselves. Right? We are bootstrapping, so we haven't we're not taking on funding, so we have to be able to support.
Gavin Tye:And if we're always so I've I've heard this somewhere before. If we're always worrying about money, then that will be our focus of our attention. But if we're comfortable, we don't have to be rich. Like, I don't have to be rich. I have a number every I have a number every month at to our breakeven point.
Gavin Tye:Yep. We're probably gonna have to lower that a little bit. But if as long as I get to that and I know that we're building something, I'm fine. And that's and as long as I'm aware with that because if I'm not if I'm worried and if Mel's worried, then our house is worried. Our house is not comfortable.
Gavin Tye:So Yeah. We just have to get to that point, and then everything else is okay. Yeah. And certainty. We like, every month, we can't be, you know, and that's unpredictable.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Yeah. But but I I agree on that. Like and because a lot of it I think it should be a certain proportion should go to, obviously, marketing and getting our name out there. Right?
Gavin Tye:And and the same as but most importantly, we have to be able to keep the lights on with infrastructure with your side of the fence. So, yeah, I think it's a really good exercise to think about. And Yeah. As we go down and then once we do that, then I'll go, okay. Let me form a plan on how to get there.
Gavin Tye:Right? And then you're like, how do we support to get there? So Yeah. We have that structure. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:And that makes sense for sure.
Mitchell Davis:Well, Roman will love this if he if he ends up listening to this. Roman, our accountant, Roman Galakov. Yeah. I'll sit here talking about budgets and stuff like that, how much we're gonna assign Yeah. Of our our revenue.
Mitchell Davis:So, yeah, let's let's do that next week.
Gavin Tye:Yep. Sure. Alright.
Mitchell Davis:Cool. I just like, I keep coming back to the thought that we are now so close to being ready to go for, like, general use. Right? So right now, like, I'm you know, the app's ready and hopefully that'll get approved today and be up in the App Store and whatever, but you're right. We need the dashboard side of things as well because we can't configure every event.
Mitchell Davis:Soon as that's done, like, this, you know, this is ready to go. We are almost there. And to be honest with you, with a little bit of manual work on my side to set up an event and add some attendees and things like that, like, it's we're probably talking less than an hour of Yep. Manual work, and I could have an event set up that could run tomorrow. Yep.
Mitchell Davis:You know? Or or, like, same day. Like, we're we're there. You know?
Gavin Tye:But that doesn't yeah. That's great. But if we wanna help people run Meetup, we can't be spending an hour on many different Meetups. Right? We have to be able to facilitate that.
Mitchell Davis:Exactly. Yeah. The the the work has to be done to be able to Yep. Have people self-service Sure. Create their own events and things like that.
Mitchell Davis:Yes. Yep. That work has to be done.
Gavin Tye:But Sure.
Mitchell Davis:It doesn't have to be done for us to have an event tomorrow, you know, if if we needed to. Yep. Yep. So, yeah, I've just it's like it's a bit of a, like, wow. Okay.
Mitchell Davis:We're we're there. Like Yep. Know? This is this has been almost well, when was LariCom was in November, and I probably started working on the early version in, like, July or August, so it's been a full twelve months. Yep.
Mitchell Davis:And now this is finally ready
Gavin Tye:to go for any For no money. For for no money.
Mitchell Davis:Right? So No. Not for no money. No.
Gavin Tye:No. You haven't been paid for it.
Mitchell Davis:Oh, yes. Yes. That's that's right.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. So So that that that's an interesting thing because now we're starting to move into not far away from moving into the business development phase. Right? Yeah. So, one of the things that I've done, been thinking about, especially from my other business, but also here it applies to here is what is our vision, mission, and values?
Gavin Tye:Because I think that's really important. I think we I think we have a set of we have an unstated
Mitchell Davis:Just needed to top up, man.
Gavin Tye:Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:I guess I better keep that long winded intro in or otherwise Yeah. Doesn't make any sense. I just I took another another shot of dichrome or alcohol or whatever.
Gavin Tye:Meth metho as it's known
Mitchell Davis:in some
Gavin Tye:some circle. Yeah. So I think we have we I think we currently we are aligned on our vision and our mission and our values. Yes. I think we have slightly different values on what's important, but they're not stated.
Gavin Tye:And I think what we need to do is work on now what those values are, like, what all those three things are. And I and what I mean by that is where I think our values are slightly misaligned is the only one that I can think of is speed of answer to customers. Like, some sometimes you get into you get into your your head like, you're into your mindset and nothing can shift you out of it, and you have a task list or a like, you're trying to maintain it to and I get it. You know, you're a details person. You need to stay into the details.
Gavin Tye:But I'm completely customer try to go back as quick as I can to a customer.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. But it's that's We talked about this, though, that, like, you were feeling I forget exactly the context, but it wasn't that long ago that you were feeling, like, really spread thin across a bunch of different things and that, like, you just have to focus sometimes on just one thing and ignore everything else. Right?
Gavin Tye:I do. I do.
Mitchell Davis:That's that's to the extent that I like, I I'm not sure I agree that I would, like, ignore a customer.
Gavin Tye:No. No. I don't think I don't think you do. That's not what I mean. But Right.
Gavin Tye:Anyway, whatever that is, we just have to get more I think we should work on our mission, vision, mission, and values just so we're aligned. And so when we're talking to people, they know exactly what it is for us so we we can align. Because I did it for Deal Buddy the other day, and I was like, oh, that I'm gonna use that. That makes sense to use that in every conversation. Right?
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. A 100%. We we should have that ready to go. So, yeah, you and I should sit down and and document that together. Yep.
Mitchell Davis:So we won't do that in in a recording, but we'll we can sit down and maybe by the end of the week. Do you reckon we could have that done? Maybe we can report back when we record on Friday.
Gavin Tye:Yep. Yep. Sure. Yeah. Cool.
Mitchell Davis:Let's do it. No time like the present, mate.
Gavin Tye:Yep. And so, mate, where are where is your head on, you know My shoulders. Drunk. Sustained, like, obviously, growing the business, and we can see that things are gonna start, you know, it's always gonna be developing six sides. So, you know Yep.
Gavin Tye:I've read a lot about using offshore workers and, you know, things like that to reduce the, you know, the cost of you know, development costs here in Australia. Like, wages are huge. Right? Where's your head on that? Where's your head around that?
Mitchell Davis:So it's funny you bring this up. I promise this wasn't coordinated or prearranged. But in one of my other businesses, we are I have been researching, and we will soon be hiring someone from The Philippines full time to work on this project. Now the project the reason we're doing this, like, the project does not or that business does not generate nearly enough revenue at the moment to afford hiring someone onshore in any capacity, like, even a a junior the most junior of juniors we could not afford at the moment in that business. Okay.
Mitchell Davis:And but hiring someone that is supposedly fairly advanced in The Philippines is within our budget. So that's something that we're doing, and I'm really excited to see, like, how does that actually go.
Gavin Tye:And how did you go through that process?
Mitchell Davis:So, typically, it is in the still planning stages. Okay. So we have not reached out to anybody yet. Sure. We have not interviewed.
Mitchell Davis:We haven't actually hired all of that. So it could all go to shit and be really hard and awful and we hate it and we just scrap the whole thing. Right? That could still happen. But the work that has happened so far to plan out was talking with ChatGPT of, okay.
Mitchell Davis:Hey. This is a situation that we're in. This is our rough budget. How much? Like what could we get for this and how would we go about it?
Mitchell Davis:And then it came back and suggested okay cool, Philippines is probably a good option given our time zone and their proclivity with English or their their, you know, they have decent English levels. Yep. Clearly, I don't because I don't know the right word to use there.
Gavin Tye:Girl, learn.
Mitchell Davis:So, yeah, sat down, talked with it for a while, put in some numbers, got some feedback, and then it suggested, okay. Why don't you look at this particular site? I think it was called onlinejobs.ph.k. And so I looked at that, ran a bunch of searches in this other business. We're also using Laravel and Vue JS, and so I punched in those, and then it brought me up, you know, there were fifty hundred candidates or something like that that all might have been suitable, lots of different filters, things like that that you can put in.
Mitchell Davis:And we've got a few people that we we have not yet reached out to but that are on my list. Once we get through the Denmark work within with six sides, I'm then going to spend probably a week or two focused on this other business Sure. So that I can help try and, you know, put some fuel in on the fire for that one and get someone up up and running and working on that project because it's just not at a point that it, you know, that it makes sense for me to be working on it. Yeah. Gotcha.
Mitchell Davis:You know? Hopefully, that makes sense.
Gavin Tye:What biz is that through Atlas, or is it through
Mitchell Davis:No. It's a separate one that I don't really wanna talk about. We don't need to get into it on the show, but it's just it's not Atlas at all. It's a completely separate site business. And and I say all of this knowing, like, it's it's quite interesting and maybe a little hypocritical that, like, I run a software development agency within Australia.
Mitchell Davis:If you're out there listening to this and you want some onshore talent in the Laravel few React Native expo space, I'd love to have a conversation with you. There'll be links for everything in the in the show notes. Right? But Yeah. In some businesses, that is just not affordable.
Gavin Tye:Right? Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. There's there's not enough revenue for it. There's no budget for it, etcetera. So this is an alternative model that I'm pursuing in another of my businesses.
Gavin Tye:Sure.
Mitchell Davis:It is potentially something that we might wanna think about for six sides. Right? And we have kind of talked off and on a little about this over the last, like, probably six weeks or so of episodes of wanting to have a chat about this. It might make sense for us in this really early stage where, you know, again, we can't like, paying to have someone do some work onshore for, you know, a week and a half or something like that took half of our war chest.
Gavin Tye:Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. We can't afford to spend a lot on development, and we are bootstrapping. And so it's not like you and I each have a $100 that we can drop into this thing. At least I certainly don't. So, you know, that might be something that we look to do.
Mitchell Davis:And if this goes well in this other business, then potentially that's a playbook that we can repeat Sure. For Six Sides. Right?
Gavin Tye:So then we did get a referral from someone. I can't remember his name. I have to have a look at it where they will find the person, source the person, all that kind
Mitchell Davis:of stuff.
Gavin Tye:I think that was from Sri Lanka.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. We we did. So, the reason I won't say their name was because, like, they I checked them out. I never got back to them because, like, they didn't have a website. I couldn't find them on, like, LinkedIn or anything like that.
Mitchell Davis:I was just getting real, yeah. Gotcha. Who the heck is this person that I'm gonna trust with this process? So Sure. Okay.
Mitchell Davis:That's why I just I never went back to them.
Gavin Tye:Sure. And then Roman gave us one as well, and I think that was out of The Philippines where they'll do a lot of the sourcing as well. I think we should check that out as well. I'll find out what that is from Roman.
Mitchell Davis:Great. Well, that would be really handy across both both businesses. Yes.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. I'll ask him. But, yeah, look, I think it does make sense. Right? Like, we are not funding.
Gavin Tye:Right? We don't have even if we did, we're able to put in a thousand a 100,000 each.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah.
Gavin Tye:That's a carrying a wage, that's only, that's a hun if we pay someone a 150,000 doll no. I can't we can't afford that. That's $10,000 a month that we're paying a developer. Like Yep. Poor.
Gavin Tye:Like, that's a that's a lot.
Mitchell Davis:Right? Software is very expensive.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. When you don't think about like, if let's just say you hire one developer, then you and I work full time. Maybe we're a 120. You know, paying a developer that's more than us, you're looking at what's that? $3.90 a year just in salaries.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. That's $30,000 Expenses.
Gavin Tye:A month Yep. Just to support, three people in a business. And $390,000 a year in software is a is a growing business, and it's hard to get there. Right? It's I just don't think you have a choice.
Gavin Tye:Right? Like, as long as you know what you're doing and give them the right support yeah, I I it's a smart I think it's smart. Like, I we don't have to throw money away.
Mitchell Davis:Right? Yeah. Yeah. I I don't see it as like, certainly, are advantages. And, again, this is where maybe I'll put on my Atlas hat.
Mitchell Davis:Like, there are definitely advantages of working onshore with onshore talent, the subject matter expertise, like, the shared experience, you know, within the Australian market and the way things work here and, you know, typically sharing a very strong amount of, like, English skill Yeah. That certainly helps. Yep. Being able to go meet someone and shake their hand, like, that's a really big bonus as well. There's, like, there's a lot of things that you get out of hiring onshore software developers.
Mitchell Davis:But if you can't afford it, it's a moot point. Right? Yeah. So
Gavin Tye:But then I also think there's part of it if you do it the right way and ethically and not trying to actually just, what's it called, take advantage of of a Yeah. Different class of people, different different society. I think that as long as you do the right thing and you're you're trying to upscale and do it for the longer term, I I think that's I think that's really beneficial too. So and I think ethically, we're we're both the same ethically aligned. So, yeah, I I think it's
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. We're certainly not looking to rip anybody off. No. It's an it's an amazing opportunity for us that we do have access just in terms of how our economies work and the the strength of the currencies and things like that. Like, what an awesome opportunity for us.
Mitchell Davis:And similarly, if you are a good employer and are paying well, then what a great opportunity for someone, you know, that's in a different economy and has
Gavin Tye:Yeah.
Mitchell Davis:Presumably lower expenses and, you know, cost of living and all of that. Like, it's it it does work both ways. So I gotta say when I went to Bali just couple weeks ago and that felt at times, it felt a bit gross because of how appreciative some of the, like, the local people there were. And it just kind of felt like we were put on a pedestal. It was like, oh, thank you so much, sir, and da da da.
Mitchell Davis:And it was just like, oh, hey. I'm just like you. Like
Gavin Tye:You do know you
Mitchell Davis:look like economies. You do know you look like a Buddha with your bald head. Yeah. Yeah. A few people came up to rub my head.
Mitchell Davis:I thought that was a good play. No. But it just like that sort of thing Yep. But that's customer service
Gavin Tye:at all. Customer service. That's a holiday destination. That's where they that's just cut like, that's just the
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. It it just it felt more than that. And I didn't like that, and Nicole similarly didn't.
Gavin Tye:Yep. Sure.
Mitchell Davis:It was just like, so I'm quite attuned to that type of thing. And and if we were to hire anyone offshore, we would need to make sure that it's not like every message is yes, sir. No, sir. Like, I don't want any of that bullshit. Like, it's yeah.
Mitchell Davis:I don't know. Just my own personal thing. Yeah.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. Don't want
Mitchell Davis:any of that. Sure. Fair enough. Yeah. That makes sense.
Gavin Tye:I agree with that. So
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. So, anyway, so that's that too is an evolving conversation we can keep coming back to.
Gavin Tye:We got a couple of minutes
Mitchell Davis:to go, mate. What do you got
Gavin Tye:on next week? How's for the rest of this week? So we're doing this on Monday this week. So
Mitchell Davis:this week, I'll be going through looking at the getting the app, issuing out any updates that might need to go to it. Even though it's currently in review, we can still issue, like, real time updates to the app, which is really handy. So going through just making sure that everything's a 100% or adding new features like I talked about earlier. I also wanna do a test run with some people in my local net sorry, in my development network. Yep.
Mitchell Davis:So shout out to the PHP Australia Slack if you're out there.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. That's good.
Mitchell Davis:That's right. That's the thumbnail.
Gavin Tye:That's a gangs gang sign for PHP.
Mitchell Davis:Anyway, so I might reach out to some of those people and just ask them, hey. Can you check out the app? Let me know if you encounter any issues, whatever. Just give this thing the best chance at at succeeding as Yep. As possible.
Mitchell Davis:Sure. Beyond that, mate, honestly, probably not a whole lot. Just kind of now getting back into the flow of normal work and working on stuff for clients under Atlas, etcetera. You know? Sure.
Mitchell Davis:What about you?
Gavin Tye:So, yeah, so we're starting to move into business development phase, so I'll start picking that back up again. I've got a my I think I spoke about this before where I'm gonna go to conferences, bigger ones, and and the ones that are being run around now, do an assessment, make a generate a report, and send it back to them. So I've got one of them coming up at the September. So I spoke to them last week. They're gonna issue me a delegate pass, which is a really big conference here in Queen in Brisbane, actually, in another industry.
Gavin Tye:So Awesome. I'm gonna start doing that reaching out. I'm starting to use Deal Buddy to help me plan out oh my gosh. Melanie's doing everything here at the moment. We need to
Mitchell Davis:get you a separate office.
Gavin Tye:I don't know what she's doing. She's yep. Anyway Living my life. Is living her life. So, yeah, so I'm starting to plan out.
Gavin Tye:There's a couple of conferences that I can see that I've set for 2026. I've got a list, to start reaching out to them. But there's also the challenge. It's the way lead generation and marketing is going is we're moving from there's a shift from digital back to in person again.
Mitchell Davis:Okay.
Gavin Tye:Because there's so much online content generated, and people are starting to not they're gonna start not being trustworthy of who's contacts them because of agents and things like that. Yeah. So we're gonna have to switch back to calling, doing cold calls, or, meet them in person so people can build trust again. I feel like that's the direction we're going. So I'm gonna take that into account of what we're doing.
Mitchell Davis:Yeah. Cool. Yep. You will have to give us an update on where you're at with the the meetup, like, of of founders that you're talking about with Roman.
Gavin Tye:We haven't. We've been waiting for the, for six sides to get to a point where we can start doing it, but I think we're almost we're at a point we can do that.
Mitchell Davis:So Yeah.
Gavin Tye:I talked to Roman this
Mitchell Davis:in September or something.
Gavin Tye:Yeah. We'll do it in the September. I'll talk to Roman this week around that, and then we were gonna run a case study. We're gonna run this as a living, breathing
Mitchell Davis:Yeah.
Gavin Tye:Business case for growing community through Six Words.
Mitchell Davis:Yep. Hey. That's awesome. I'm excited. Awesome.
Mitchell Davis:Cool. Okay. Alright. Well, why don't we wrap it up there then? We've done it.
Mitchell Davis:We finished before ten. So Yep. Brilliant. Thank you very much if you're out there listening. We can see that you are.
Mitchell Davis:We've had a a run of, like, decent listenerships over the last few episodes, so, hopefully, we keep that keep that coming. Leave us a review and a rating. We will check those at the start of next week's episode. So Yep. We'll put that in.
Mitchell Davis:So if you wanna get your name read out, now's the time. Jump in. And, yeah, I guess we'll see you next week. You can find me at Mitch Dav in all the places. Gavin, where can people find you?
Gavin Tye:On LinkedIn. Gavin Ty, t y e.
Mitchell Davis:That's the one. Perfect.
Gavin Tye:Yep. Alright, mate. Have a week. Again on the app, mate. Well done.
Mitchell Davis:Thank you. Alright. We'll catch you all next week. See you. Bye.